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Another Thing That Drives Me Crazy... Differences In Purity Marks

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Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2016  5:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
ok, I have seen the following in really pure coins, bars and round, as well as some oddball ones, as the rest of you have also seen...

999.9
99.99
.9999
9999
9.999
9999.

and these are just for the 4 "9's" purity marks. I have seen several Chinese 24k taels which did away with this nonsense and simply put "1000" as the purity.

anybody have an idea of why so many variations? or why? should there be just one standard mark, worldwide?

thanks... mike
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2016  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They don't put 1.000 purity marks because it's almost impossible to guarantee that there will be no impurities. That's just what stage in technology we are in. We can get .99999 as far as I know but there will always be impurities in 24 karat gold.

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 3/3
OR
1/3 +1/3+ 1/3 = .99999999999999999...

It's not nonsense; it's pretty accurate.
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cwb's Avatar
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3463 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  12:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1.0 pure Gold has never been achieved to my knowledge, even in a laboratory. Some speculate that Gold that pure would even look clear, like glass. Even if 100% pure Gold were possible, as soon as it came into contact with anything, the holder, the atmosphere, anything, it would no longer be 100% pure.
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beem's Avatar
United States
574 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  10:37 am  Show Profile   Check beem's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add beem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Some speculate that Gold that pure would even look clear, like glass.


I'm no chemist, but honestly, that sounds ridiculous.


Quote:
Even if 100% pure Gold were possible, as soon as it came into contact with anything, the holder, the atmosphere, anything, it would no longer be 100% pure.


I think this is also wrong, for the same reasons when a .99999 gold coin comes into contact with air it does not lose any purity. Gold is mostly nonreactive. That's one of the reasons it was/is used as money.
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
here is one of the "1000" purity Chinese "doughnut taels... normally there is a "9999" or ".9999 there.

contrary to what some think when they see the "1000", it is not the monetary value of the coin but the purity. google "Chinese doughnut gold taels" to see more.

so are we saying that the Chinese are fudging just a tad? I agree, just exposing this thing to air would problably knock the purity down...

mike



Another-Thing-That-Drives-Me-Crazy...-Differences-In-Purity-Marks
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
and here is a typical "9999" gold tael. most of these are in pretty bad shape, like they have been tossed in a dryer for 20 minutes. others are in relatively good shape. the reason for the hole? it is because so the Chinaman gold merchant can stack these on a stick.

it is a little weird that so many of these are struck or made with such a lack of precision. the 1000 tael is such an example... and it looks too lousy to be a fake.

btw, I have two of the 9999 taels, one is a little beat up, the other "fook" one is in a little better shape...



Another-Thing-That-Drives-Me-Crazy...-Differences-In-Purity-Marks
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
then again, we get these... while the doughnut itself says "1000", most often the more honest sellers will still advertise or state that it is as being ".999" pure, despite the 1000 purity designation.

taels are roughly 1.2 oz (troy) or 37.5 grams

Another-Thing-That-Drives-Me-Crazy...-Differences-In-Purity-Marks
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sorry, I meant that the more honest or knowledgeable sellers will state the purity as "9999" even tho the doughnut is stamped "1000".
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sorry, but what about the original question... should there be a worldwide standard on these 24k doughnuts, rounds, bars or whatever, should they all stamped as a standardized 9999, 99.99, 999.9 or 9.999 or .9999 ?

or do I just have too much time on my hands to think about such silly things....?
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4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
forgot about the 9999. stamp designation
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They could just stamp it with 24K and be done with it. There is no 100% pure gold, to my knowledge. I once read that the reason Chinese or Asian coins had holes was so that they could wear their money on a necklace.
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cwb's Avatar
United States
3463 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2016  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Quote:
Some speculate that Gold that pure would even look clear, like glass.


I'm no chemist, but honestly, that sounds ridiculous.


Quote:
Even if 100% pure Gold were possible, as soon as it came into contact with anything, the holder, the atmosphere, anything, it would no longer be 100% pure.


I think this is also wrong, for the same reasons when a .99999 gold coin comes into contact with air it does not lose any purity. Gold is mostly nonreactive. That's one of the reasons it was/is used as money.


You should ask a chemist.
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2016  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are right Libertad, they can be used as pendants for necklaces, the dealers use the holes to string them together as well as stacking them on a stick.

so the "1000" mark is not accurate then and the Chinaman is fudging a just a tiny tad bit on the purity stamp is what I gather from this discussion.

thanks for the inputs... mike
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winston55's Avatar
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2016  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add winston55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your correct there is no such thing as 100% pure. Contaminates include things like oxygen and nitrogen which get absorbed during the minting process making it impossible to achieve 1.000 purity
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UltraRant's Avatar
Norway
1358 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2016  02:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's no such thing as 100% purity in gold. If it was, it certainly wasn't clear as glass. It'd be just as shiny as as .999 gold: it is in fact possible to make gold sheets so thin that they become transparent. In that case, the sheet will transmit green-blue light, as gold reflects yellow and red (hence the color you see: this characteristic of the chemical element will not change at 100% purity). Also, even though gold is largely non-reactive with oxygen and 'regular' air, a bit of reaction with the environment cannot be excluded, as gold actually does react at some degree with some elements under certain conditions, hence the .999 and not the 1.000. However, compared to most other natural elements on this earth, the amount of elements it reacts with and the extent of the reaction are so little, that gold is seen as one of the least reactive elements in the periodic table.

You don't need to be a professor in chemistry to know this, just basic knowledge will do.

Also, I'm not sure about those marks in your nuggets. Knowing that 1000 doesn't exist, seeing that these chopmarks look like post-nugget-damage, and knowing how much fake gold leaves China, I'd consider having them tested if I were you.
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cwb's Avatar
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3463 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2016  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the record, I didn't say that 100% pure Gold would be clear like glass. From past study on the subject, some others have speculated that it might be. In the world we live in, everything reacts with everything else around it to some degree, so it is nearly impossible for us to have anything that is 100% pure.
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