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 Replies: 20 / Views: 15,980 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
623 Posts |
I see these listed on ebay. What is a specimen proof and would buy one? It is graded by PCGS. Thanks!  *** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. *** |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4592 Posts |
Specimen not Specimen Proof.
They were not minted as, nor handled as proofs, however they did receive more care than the usual run of the mill coins for circulation. Hence the middle designation.
In theory if you had a really doggy one, you could get an MS6x grade.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
623 Posts |
It is actually designation "specimen proof" by PCGS. Are they worth buying? More desirable...less desirable?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
The SP designation tells you that this coin is a Specimen Strike NOT a Proof strike.
If it was a Proof strike it would have a PR designation
No such critter as a specimen Proof OK.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
623 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2023 Posts |
I agree with the others, that there is no "specimen proof", especially among these gold dimes (there are no proofs).
That said, I wouldn't buy that particular one because it is "serial numbers vary" -- the piece I would receive is not the one in the picture. There are a number of these pieces that are finned on the edge, which I would consider and error/mis-strike, yet they still get 70s. I'd hold out for one that it a clear picture of the actual piece being sold, or better yet, one in my hand.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
623 Posts |
If you flip through ebay or even do a google search they are all "SP." I am not seeing any "MS" designation coins. Some are slabbed SP70 and do come with OGP. Does anyone know why these are designated SP? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
623 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1027 Posts |
Unfortunately the meanings of several coin terms have been muddied in recent decades. Classically, proof meant that a coin was struct at least twice on a specially prepared planchet, and handled with considerable care on its way to the consumer. Proof did not used to mean anything about the finish, there were cameo proofs, satin proofs, brilliant proofs, and more. The mint has been responsible for much of the confusion (because many of its marketing types are no longer numismatists) by using terms like uncirculated for coins that were never intended to circulate and calling the 2009 UHRDE a business strike (every aspect of that coin shouted proof). For the coin you ask about here, it doesn't really matter what it is called, they are all the same. If I wanted to get picky, I would call it a specimen if the only thing keeping it from being a proof was that it was only struck once. PCGS and NGC both use the SP designation on the "uncirculated" 5oz ATB coins. I think that the "specimen" nomenclature is a good one for a coin that is struck once on a specially prepared planchet and given special handling after being struck. I think that the premiums being asked and paid for xx70 coins is way too much. Even as far back as 2009, with the UHRDE, over 60% of coins graded by PCGS and NGC were getting 70s (so 69 were actually rarer than 70s) and coins today are even better quality. Unless you are looking for bragging rights I would shy away from paying a significant premium for these coins. There is very little downside if you buy coins in OGP or coins slabbed as 69 (by PCGS or NGC) but the premium for 70s could all but evaporate if people catch on to the fact that 70s are just not at all uncommon anymore. It is not as bad as paying a huge premium for "first strike" coins because at least you should be able to tell a 70 from a 69 if you remove it from the slab. Buy the coin, not the label. Edited by clairhardesty
09/11/2016 01:53 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
883 Posts |
It's a cool coin. It will hold value because it is gold. I am not sure it will have significant extra value just because PCGS gave it a rating but the extra validation does have some value. It is a marketing and validation value. My personal experience is with advising heirs on liquidating collections of deceased collectors. I am not a dealer. Most heirs want a quick settlement and those that are in a position to offer quick cash are those who make a living dealing in precious metals or coins. My prediction is this. 60 years from now, this coin in a slab will not bring much more, if anything more at all, than one just like it that was never in a slab and was kept un-marred from circulation to someone who inherits it unless they take the time and incur the expense of re-marketing it as a "special" coin of its type due to it being in a slab. More likely, it will be sold to a dealer at near the value of its metal content who will then try to market it for a marginal profit.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
623 Posts |
I ended up answering my own question. When I originally posted I thought there were SP and MS coins. If that were true (which it isn't) would the SP coins be worth more? However, all 125,000 coins are considered specimens.
Edited by Russ789
09/11/2016 02:08 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
There are thousands of these that have been graded SP70, So not a rare grade at all for these coins  |
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New Member
United States
22 Posts |
From PCGS website definitions, SP
Short for Specimen Strike.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2205 Posts |
I wouldn't buy this coin. Mercury dimes ended in 1916. Period. A Mercury design with a 2016 date is just wrong. This is a gimmick to capitalize on nostalgia. Just like how the mint "borrowed" the Walking Liberty half and the Buffalo nickel to make modern commemoratives. Yeah, they look nice, but those designs are from another era. We should be able to come up with more, similarly beautiful ORIGINAL designs. But the mint doesn't want to have to pay living artists to do that. They just want to keep living off of--and making money off of--the past. (That begs the question--is this coin legal tender?) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
666 Posts |
And then there are the Sacagawea/Native American enhanced uncirculated finish coins issued in 2014-2016 as part of the Coin & Currency sets. 2014-D PCGS - MS NGC - SP 2015-WPCGS - SP NGC - SP 2016-SPCGS - SP NGC - SP Whew! If you can remember the mints (Denver, then West Point, then San Francisco), and grade designations (MS or SP) as they apply to each year, you're ahead of me! ~ Mark |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
(That begs the question--is this coin legal tender?) Yes it is.....for ten cents. |
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Replies: 20 / Views: 15,980 |
Posted 09/10/2016 10:49 pm
