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To participate in the forum you must log in or register. | Author |
 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,719 |
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
hi all this all started out back around the middle of july. I was looking at a 1 oz gold henry VIII coin that has a 1/20 oz. platinum angel insert. The seller was acemcfly, the price was $1,895, a fair price for this coin. I already have two of these coins, the #1 and #2 coins according to the c.o.a.'s, which is pretty special for me. here is where things start to get weird. the seller does not offer to send the coa with it, but, if the buyer wants, the seller informs the buyer "NOTE: LISTING DOES NOT INCLUDE THE CERTIFICATE SHOWN...JUST FOR AUTHENTICATION PURPOSES. If you win and cannot copy the certificate images, I will send them with the coin". here is the original listing... http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-ISLE-O...047675.l2557huh? so I emailed the seller a few times about this, he said that the certificate was from ANOTHER COIN. you can see this for yourself at the bottom of the page under "questions and answers". anyways, the whole thing degenerated to the point where he basically called me an "A". I reported him to ebay and the listing was pulled. then, he came back with the same seller name and price, but said that "NO CERTIFICATE IS AVAILABLE" then that listing ended. I knew he would not give up, so I kept up the search. now, the same exact coin is imaged, the exact same description is given (including that he handles his coins with sterile gloves), BUT THE SELLER ID IS DIFFERENT AND NOW THE PRICE is $1,599 (some $300 cheaper than before), and still no certificate is available. I know what you are thinking... he sold the coin and the buyer decided to unload the coin at a loss, right? wrong, I think, unless the buyer decided to copy EVERY LAST WORD, SYMBOL, pictures and otherwise in the listing and such in the "new" listing. it is exactly the same listing as before. make your own decision.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-ISLE-O...AOSwdIFX1geiI smelled a rat back then and I smell a bigger rat now. so tell me, does any of this make sense to you guys? I hope that the seller is on this board, maybe he can clear things up a bit... mike |
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Valued Member
 United States
379 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
here is one of our more "memorable" exchanges... message from: acemcfly Top Rated Seller(3,109Red Star) Oh Just get over yourself...if you have a certificate, and know the coin is real, what is your problem...oh, never mind, I know what it is!@ Reply Your previous message it is not only weird but borderline dishonest. you are the first coin seller that I have seen to include pictures of documentation that are from another coin. I have two of these same coins myself. when people look at ebay items and see pictures they assume that the things in the picture are included in the auction. but if that is how you want to run your business, fine but it is questionable. I was interested in the coin until I saw that the documents pictured in the listing were not included and it only makes me suspicious, like, ok, where are the documents from the coin that you are selling and why would you put pictures of documents of another coin that you are not selling? obviously we will not be doing business but that is not how to handle coin sales in my opinion... I would revise your auction to explain why the documents are not included, at least that way people would know, but do what you want... acemcfly: The certificate I have images of was from another coin I sold last year. This coin was purchased without any,,,,sorry, but not really weurd. Ace Your previous message hello kinda weird, selling the coin but it's paperwork does not go with it? unusual.... thanks.... mike |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
343 Posts |
Yeah all the horror stories here have made me stop purchasing coins on ebay. This world isn't very trustworthy anymore. But when money rules the world.... |
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Valued Member
United States
408 Posts |
Well, 4504, you already have you answer. This coin can sell for $1800. Why doesn't he just send it to PCGS or NGC and have it graded for $30 or whatever. He will obviously recoup his cost by passing it on to the buyer. It doesn't matter if $1800 is a drop in a bucket or a drop in the ocean for you. Nobody likes to get taken at any price. Tell him to go hit the road and spend your money on a safer investment. If you really want *** Removed by the Staff. Not an appropriate comment ***, put his name in the title of a topic in this forum. One of the first things I do, along with other stuff, when I buy a coin from ebay is cut and paste their name into google and see if anything derogatory comes up. Don't lie. Just tell your story. People will have doubts about buying from this eBayer. Reading your post just now, I would never buy from him or her. Good luck in finding that coin from somewhere else. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7628 Posts |
Avoid unslabbed high dollar coin purchases on ebay. You are just asking for trouble. |
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
I already have the henry VII coins I want. At the new price, it is a now a good deal vs. a fair deal when first offered. I personally feel that the coin is real. The part that was suspicious to me was the part about the COA, what, the buyer can "copy" the c.o.a. if the buyer was unable to, that he would get mailed the copied c.o.a.? from another coin? I think he would have been better off by just in his original saying simply that the coa was not available. what good does a copied coa from another coin do anybody? If he would have said that in the main body of his listing and explained it was just an example, maybe it would have made a difference. for him to get nasty did not help him. I am starting to think, unfortunately, that westernsky might have the right idea... no more unslabbed high dollar coin purchases on ebay. what is bad about this is that I know a lot of you honest sellers on ebay depend on ebay. Some coa's do not have ANY what number-in-series number. I will still take a very much harder look at unslabbed coins, which is too bad, because I would guess that 90%+ of sellers on ebay are honest and it is too bad that one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. Perhaps the coin is real (I have not heard of these coins being copied yet and they do not come in any other variation as far as I know) and it was only a matter of faulty rationalization and the original listing details by the seller at best, and at worst...who knows? but crum, is it realistic or has it come down to the point where EVERY coin to be sold must be slabbed? maybe so, because as others have said, at least you know you got the real deal and willing to pay a few dollars more for the peace of mind, but it still sucks for the vast majority of honest ebay sellers to have to go through the "hassle". |
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
I occasionally use or rely upon "stock" photos, like many other sellers do, especially the companies. the reason why is that they usually have much better pictures. however, I do make a BIG point on which photos are mine, and which photos are stock and that the stock photo coin is NOT the one for sale.
I have no problem with this at all, as my pictures usually suck, but I feel it is the responsibility for the seller to make this known in the main body of his listing, which this seller failed to do when including the COA pictures, whether they are a stock photo from another coin or he coa from the actual coin pictured.
This is why I see so often that the seller reassures the buyer that the buyer will be receiving the exact coin pictured.
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts |
With such coin prices and such seller behavior, all the red flags should go up and the alarm bells should sound as well. I would never deal with someone like this, especially not when knowing how many fake expensive coins there are on that site.
You already have two of that coin, maybe you can just wait until a new one with a cert and a normal salesperson arrives?
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Valued Member
Japan
349 Posts |
You probably know this, but the COA of most coins is not fixed to any specific coin.
They might be chosen at random when shipped, and can have numbers higher than the actual mintage of the coin.
In any case, the phrase "JUST FOR AUTHENTICATION PURPOSES." does not make sense here.
Of course it is not good to have pictures of things that are not included.
He may have thought he was providing a better description of the coin.
I just noticed that, in item specifics he had "Certification Number: 156 / 500" !
My guess is that he copied the old item -- that he says he sold last year.
I doubt anyone would have put that in the item specifics on purpose. That should be grounds for a significantly not as described claim.
The text regarding the certificate images, send them with the coin blah blah is certainly confusing.
Yet you immediately accuse him of being "borderline dishonest," after receiving an honest answer.
How would you feel if someone accused you of being dishonest for using stock photos, even when making a big point about it?
I would expect a professional to look hard at the description to understand why they received such a complaint. Maybe he was just having a bad day...
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Valued Member
United States
379 Posts |
I guess it does not matter, but the $1,599.00 coin from the another seller is no longer available. but he is back, both here and on the UK... at the original $1895 price. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-ISLE...AOSwdIFX1geiI do have to disagree with you slightly on one issue tho, yes, I know that the coa's are mass-produced and somebody at the mint just problably grabs a coa and puts it in no particular order inside the box with the coin, but do we know for sure? I am of the opinion, and I could be wrong, that when a coin is made in order, that there is or should be the right, or in-sequence numbered coa waiting for it. otherwise, what is the value of a numbered coa at all? it is just my opinion that if it is a numbered coa, that particular coa should stay with and represent that coin forever. if I had a numbered coa saying it was #2, and found out later my coin was actually coa #446 or whatever, I would feel cheated as lower coa numbers count in my world. also, if you see my earlier post here, I have no problem whatsoever using stock photos as long as they are identified as stock photos and it is stated originally in the listing itself that it is not actually the coin (or in this matter a numbered coa representing the coin) for sale. but I am also man enough to admit I could be wrong about some, most or all of it... my first sentence in one of our our exchanges was in error about using stock pictures. it take a big man to admit he made a mistake, however, I am not a big man... mike |
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,719 |
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Posted 09/15/2016 9:56 pm
