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 Replies: 28 / Views: 2,082 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5193 Posts |
What makes these one DDO and not md ? Looks like any other that has been called md here. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts |
Take notice of the widening on the right side of the cross bar of the 4.  I realize this coin has taken a hit on the 4, but the widening is still evident. Edited by cwb
09/17/2016 11:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts |
Quote:What makes these one DDO and not md ? Looks like any other that has been called md here. Look closely and you can see that the secondary image is not flat and close to the level of the field. You can also see how the light reflects off of the higher parts of the image, something you wouldn't see if it was flat. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
There was an issue with an alteration of had tooling to enhance the weakening neck line.  You can find different examples that year. So it is not a master die issue. It maybe a altered hub issue. Not a doubled die. When you look you can find varying stages of this. On the coppercoins 1964D-1DO-001 Class 5 DDOhttp://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mdsYou can see a rotation of the hubbing that die. (above the top of the 4 on ones side, below the 'L' on LIBERTY on the other side. Other times like the 1964D-1DO-002 Class 8 DDOhttp://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mdsYou can see the hub doubling on just one side and not on the date side. On the 1964D-1DO-001 class 1 DDO you can see something similar as the 001, but they are considered different classes. http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mdsThat is the three different classes of DDO for that year on the obverse dies. The lips, nose, brow and neck on this coin are just machine damage issues. (note how it cuts into these devices reducing them) The tip of the 4 is coin damage. Edited by coop
09/18/2016 09:09 am
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Valued Member
 United States
148 Posts |
Did they hand tool all of the profile including lips, eyes, nose and forehead. Where do you source your info, coop? I enjoy research.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3331 Posts |
To me, the neckline in the OP appears dissimilar to the Hand Tooled neckline?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts |
The neck line isn't a part of the doubled die, it wasn't caused from the hubbing of the die, it was retooled. The other devices, like the 4 in the date would be a part of the doubled die. I was looking at the fact that the mint mark location is the same as the know doubled die on coppercoins (006), and the lip doubling (retooling) matches, along with the widening of the right side of the horizontal bar of the 4 in the date. I also did an overlay of the die scratches, which are mostly gone on the coin in question, but there appears to be traces of them left.
So either both dies were retooled exactly the same and have the mint mark in the same location, or this is from the same die. The damage on the 4 of the date does hurt authentication, but it still appears wider on the right to me.
Sometimes it is difficult to know for sure with only photos to work with, that's why I said before that I couldn't be 100% without seeing the coin, but it still looks like it to me.
EDIT: If the retooling was done on the hub that made this die, then other dies would have the same retooling.
Edited by cwb
09/18/2016 4:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3331 Posts |
I was confused - I had thought that the retooling issue was raised in order to address the question of it being a doubled die. I see now that this was not the point.
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Valued Member
United States
148 Posts |
Oh gosh Pete2226, you were confused? I am definitely confused. And Claude, you are a pillar of the community. Thanks for all your help!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
The hub was weakening with continued use. So they enhanced it a bit. So the dies that were created with that hub would show the alteration. If they altered two hubs, I'm not sure. On the lip doubling, take another look at the side by side there. You can see where the OPs lips were reduced with MD, while the lips on the 006 are actually a bit larger.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts |
Is there any chance we could get a close up image of the date including the mint mark, and a closer image of the RTY in LIBERTY?
EDIT: Try to get straight on shot of the coin's surface, not taken at an angle.
Edited by cwb
09/18/2016 6:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2624 Posts |
The 4 on the OP's coin is damaged. The profile is MD.
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Valued Member
United States
148 Posts |
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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,082 |
First Page
Posted 09/17/2016 11:10 pm
