How To Distinguish Between A Proof, Cameo, Deep Cameo, & Ultra Cameo

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 3,431
mdpmedia Pillar of the Community United States 3546 Posts	Posted 10/08/2016 11:10 pm I need assistance to accurately understand & identify the visual traits for each of the above grades. Many times I'll look at a proof coin ID'd and slabbed in a non-NGC or non-PCGS TPG holder. But more than 50% of the time the exact proof type is over-graded: ie ultra cameo instead of deep cameo appears typed onto the slabs label etc. And sometimes a smaller % of the time the correct proof grade is actually under-graded; this is more common in those square type of holders held together with those clear plastic screws. With these types non-permanent holders one can come out smelling like a rose with a nicer coin for the money spent. But knowing how to differentiate the various proofs is essential. Any assistance would be appreciated. Report this Post to the Staff

John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 10/09/2016 08:17 am Rick Tomaska (may not be spelled right) has a great book on cameo coins. John1 Report this Post to the Staff
T-BOP Rest in Peace United States 18456 Posts	Posted 10/09/2016 08:39 am I believe for the most part that this is very controversial amongst TPG's . I also believe a collector would need some time under their belt to tell the difference . When you see an Ultra Cameo PR-69 you'll know about it, compared to a cameo PR-63 . Edited by T-BOP 10/09/2016 08:41 am Report this Post to the Staff
John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 10/09/2016 09:33 am If I remember right Mr. Tomaska helped PCGS set up the proof grading system they use. It's something like:-prf prf +prf then brilliant prf, prf,cameo prf,dcam prf. It also has something to do with depth of reflection using a ruler. John1 Report this Post to the Staff
BStrauss3 Pillar of the Community United States 4589 Posts	Posted 10/09/2016 10:58 am Proof is actually a function of intention - special preparation of the dies and planchets. It may also be struck on special presses, double struck, etc. Cameo is a function of the actual strike, highly depending on the instantaneous state of the dies, e.g. polished and then just enough strikes to wear away the scratches leaving a mirrored surface. Many cameo coins are proofs, but there are also cameos found (rarely) in business strikes. The other terms (e.g. deep cameo) are modifiers that indicate how reflective the surface is. For example at one grading service, you must be able to read newsprint at 10" (or something like that). -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ Report this Post to the Staff
Buzz Killington Valued Member United States 81 Posts	Posted 10/09/2016 7:56 pm DCAM = PCGS terminology UCAM = NGC terminology Report this Post to the Staff
muddler Pillar of the Community United States 7189 Posts	Posted 10/09/2016 9:59 pm I have some PCGS graded proof cameos that to me are deep cameo. At least compared to NGC ultra cam of the same type of coins. Report this Post to the Staff
Alan Pillar of the Community Canada 1463 Posts	Posted 10/10/2016 12:26 am They probably pick 2 different cameo designations than flip the coin and see what ends up on the label. Lol Report this Post to the Staff
John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 10/10/2016 3:48 pm Rick's book can be bought used for $40. John 1 Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 8 / Views: 3,431

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