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Toning Coins In Holder

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 1,864Next Topic  
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2016  10:14 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have read that it is possible to tone coins in an existing holder. This seller (link below) has a number of coins that appear AT in a holder. It appears that the seller is playing the toning game from a number of different angles that include toning raw coins and selling the coins on ebay, submitting coins to TPG's for grading and maybe toning coins in holders.

The toned 1923 Peace dollar in the link can not be verified as PCGS does not acknowledge the cert number. Many of the seller's PCGS coins have suspect toning, but can not be checked against photo as PCGS does not provide photos on most coins.

282224121407

This NGC dime has suspect AT toning and the cert number is blocked, so it can not be checked against NGC photo.

Toning-Coins-In-Holder


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jaxenro's Avatar
United States
533 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2016  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jaxenro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
His feedback lists some questionable activity including artificial toning I wouldn't purchase from him
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2016  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Almost every single one of those looks AT.

When done to a high standard, AT cannot be (chemically) distinguished from NT, so more than likely the coins are being AT and then slabbed. PCGS, NGC, et al. cannot distinguish AT from NT in a lot of cases unless it is blatantly obvious, in which case the coins usually come back Environmental Damage or Questionable Color or just Genuine Not Gradable.

The raw Morgans & Ikes he lists are 100% AT, I'd bet my farm on it, if I had a farm. I don't see anything wrong with the brown box Ikes (they really do tone that way) or the PCGS slabbed lightly toned coins, but those purple/pink/orange monstrosities are pure imitation.

Some of the other coins in PCGS, NGC, and ANACS slabs appear to be naturally toned, but have almost certainly had the colors monkeyed with to "juice" the photos.
Compare the color of the PCGS labels on the following listings:

272416338269

282219882744

Those are same-gen PCGS holders, yet the labels are completely different shades of blue -- the second coin (the ugly, cheap Peace MS63) is way bright on the coin photo and off-balance while having a very dark, dimly lit label, but the "rainbow" 1884-O Morgan is much brighter on the label, yet measurably darker on the coin photo. Unless seller is using different lighting and camera for every photo, the wild variances in label colors for same-gen holders is a MAJOR red flag that some Photoshop hackery is afoot.

Looks like he got a little carried away here:

282220077665

You can see where the label photo got affected by the perspective lighting being done to the coin photo directly below it.

I wouldn't buy anything from this guy raw, and I'd only buy the slabs if the coins weren't toned. There's a reason none of these have TrueView and that every single raw coin is toned in almost the exact same colors (orange, pink, purple, and red...)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
10/19/2016 9:32 pm
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jdiablo30's Avatar
United States
946 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2016  07:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdiablo30 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This guy has been mentioned plenty of times on the InstaGram coin community. No one seems to like them and they are selling AT coins and giving toner coins a bad rep. Stay away from this guy.
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chase55t's Avatar
United States
50 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2016  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chase55t to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't trust newer toned coins, even if it is in a holder. AT is easily doable to do to new coins to inflate their value.
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2016  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
originally I thought the seller was using gas to tone coins in holders, but it appears to be done with photos. It looks like the seller is buying toned coins and juicing the photos and asking outrages money as the coin was purchased for $36.50 and now the best offer price is $2500. See the same coin in the ebay links below.
182296854570
282224121407

Here is an ANACS coin the before and after and this one does look like it was gassed as there two darker photos that appear to show what the actual should look like.
252524508504
272422202735
Edited by Slider23
10/23/2016 1:16 pm
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jaxenro's Avatar
United States
533 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2016  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jaxenro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can'y ebay suspend the first one there is obviously an issue either jazzed photos or somehow the coin was altered
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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2016  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the sellers (thankfully not that many) who only needs to score a couple of sales a month to newbie buyers who have major bucks to waste to make an excellent profit.

Many of these have had photo editing to make any slight toning seem all that much more WOW! I can't imagine that anyone would get one of these and keep it - since they are probably a lot different in person that in the photos - but since he keeps on listing this "stuff" there must be a few who fall to his evil doings.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2016  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The same people who buy "BU MS UNSEARCHED OBW Morgan dollar rolls" and "unsearched" rolls of any kind in general and badly overpriced coins with "rare scarce key date MS BU++++++++++ GEM DMPL ULTRA CAMEO" written on the 2x2 with the junk silver coin inside. Not to mention that "yellow DMPL" guy...you probably know who I mean...still scamming unsuspecting Morgan collectors for years.

It's distasteful on the part of the sellers, but there are no laws against being an uneducated consumer. If I ran ebay coins, I'd make by default the terms "rare", "scarce", "desirable", "key date", "semi-key", etc. not show up in searches from both titles and listing descriptions entirely, whether they are accurate or not, as well as any mention of any sort of grade on any non-slabbed coin, whether 1-70, AG to MS/BU, whatever, that would also get filtered out. People browsing coins on ebay would have to "opt in" to see listings containing those terms and virtually sign an agreement that they understand that sellers may misrepresent grade, value, scarcity, condition, appearance, defects, and any other aspect of a coin listed for sale and are willing to view those listings anyway.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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