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Most Complete Roman Collections?

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Finn235's Avatar
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6130 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2016  1:51 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've been working a bit to ID, organize, and sort my Roman coins, working to eventually get as far as I can on a "one of each emperor" set, using the old 207 lists to help guide me. If all of my attributions are correct (sort of trusting some ID's I made when I was still very in experienced), I am currently at 71 between emperors, caesars, usurpers, secessionists, and wives. A couple are questionable authenticity, a few are serious stumpers, and many are in desperate need of upgrades, but it's a start!

I am curious to know of the 207 theoretical "complete" set, how many has any one person (or museum) been able to assemble into a single collection? I know the British museum has one of the most complete sets in the world, but do they have all 207?

Also, feel free to post your own progress!
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echizento's Avatar
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23731 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2016  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't collected Roman coins for some time now moving onto the Eastern empires, but I managed to get 64 emperors.
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Athalbert's Avatar
Spain
629 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2016  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Athalbert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, there is a roman emperor Domitian II who is so rare and scarce that there are only two known coins...
So only two museums in all the world could have the complete list (and one is the British Museum)
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 Posted 11/02/2016  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add brenpickle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can anyone share the 207 list? I want to build a portriat set, so this would help a lot. I am new so I only have 4 that are IDed.
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 11/02/2016  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 11/02/2016  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add brenpickle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, this will help keep me focused a lot.
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jskirwin's Avatar
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616 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2016  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jskirwin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Man, and I thought the 12 Caesars was hard...
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 Posted 11/03/2016  02:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Keep in mind that the "complete" list does not include those persons who held the inferior rank of Caesar without graduating to Augustus !
So you may wish to add a few more such as Drusus (son of Tiberius) Aelius (adopted by Hadrian) and even Crispus (son of Constantine). Now toss in a few of the wives and daughters who were granted the rank of "Augusta" and your task becomes even more formidable !
Personally I believe that Severina (wife of Aurelian) should be included in the ranks of emperors as she appears to have held a position as equal to her husband and later seems to have reigned for several months after his assasination. She seems to have (been) retired and lived out her life in peace. More than can be said for many so-called "emperors" !!

And what collection would be complete without a coin of Livia !
The wife of Augustus probably held more influence and power over her clan (Julio-Claudian) than any male member of the 'tribe'.
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 Posted 11/03/2016  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think that particular list is very useful for such a set, unfortunately (mainly for the reasons explained by FVRIVS RVFVS).

Wildwinds has a nice chronological list, but it is perhaps too complete (in particular, it seems to have a few early imperial wives that are only attested on provincial coinage, and a bunch of really obscure usurpers, rebels and pretenders). It does not appear to be linked from ahywhere, either (I only found it by googling, and only because I remembered looking for it before).

Neither list appears to include Silbannacus, perhaps the most famous "rarest Roman emperor". The Wildwinds list, being explicitly "imperial", also notably doesn't have Julius Caesar.
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Finn235's Avatar
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 Posted 11/03/2016  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do have a Severina in the mail; I certainly do agree that she deserves her place among the boys since she did take the reigns after her husband's death. Where did you read that she was retired? According to Wikipedia, severina was discovered from her coins, because she is not mentioned once in any Roman history. Sounds a bit like a damnatio carried out by Tacitus, no?

I have been relying heavily on Wildwinds up to this point, but the various old lists on here are a good sobriety check; as January stated, Wildwinds lists many who are simply not obtainable. It's kind of like the V nickel albums that are mean enough to have a spot for the 1913.
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 Posted 11/03/2016  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think the "completeness" and the amount of unobtainable emperors are really the same thing. (For a given value of "unobtainable", anyway.)
The "emperors only" list would not include people like Crispus, Julia Domna, or (either) Faustina, which are pretty much a must-have for any reasonably complete Roman collection (I'm lucky enough to have a coin of Faustina... the second one, I think, I don't recall exactly).
Meanwhile, you're hardly going to find any Roman emperor list that doesn't have the assorted Western emperors from 455-476 (good luck, a few of them are only attested in gold, and even the rest are still silly rare).

But yes, the completely unobtainable guys are minor rebels/usurpers/pretenders, and/or obscure relatives. I don't think any of the rare late Western emperors has the entire known number of coins measured in double digits (Jotapian, Clodius Macer, Sejanus... and I think Constantia is in single digits).
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 Posted 11/03/2016  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I honestly cannot remember where I read that Severina retired to relative obscurity after her reign ended. She is apparently not mentioned by the authors of the period.

But one thing is rather clear to me. Her portraits often show her with a moustache !

Most-Complete-Roman-Collections?

She also received full recognition appearing on the aureus antoninianus denarius and the "As" of the period.

On what seem to be later coins (Sear attributes them AD 275) the legend reads SEVERINAE AVG rather than the earlier SEVERINA AVG (which Sear attributes AD 274-5). The reverse type on these antoniniani (CONCORDIA MILITVM) has a figure that on better examples looks to be the 'old girl' herself holding two standards.

The indications are that she was respected and revered by the military. The lack of mention speaks for her I think. The new emperor Tacitus does not seem likely to have had her erased either physically or otherwise

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antwerpen2306's Avatar
Belgium
1194 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2016  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add antwerpen2306 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
it is normal that her coins show her with a moustache . In that time , they had not yet invented the sophisticated razors we have .
The legend Severinae Aug(ustae) is a dative , meaning : to Severina the Augusta .
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Finn235's Avatar
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6130 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2016  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A lot of empresses look a bit like the emperor with a wig, if you think about it. Certainly not a whole lot of "lookers" in the imperial wives lineup of the 3rd century!

Bringing the topic back into focus somewhat, I have never actually been to a museum with any sort of ancient coin collection at all. Of those that do have a "collection", does it tend to include the more obscure rulers, or just "stars" like the 12 caesars, 5 good emperors, Severans, and Constantinians?

I personally have never seen all of the post-Valentinian III emperors in a single collection, and Marcian (and maybe Leo) are the only ones I can claim for my own collection.
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