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Comparing Extension With Lens Coupling:

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 Posted 12/01/2016  06:28 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
A few months back in another forum a thread was posted pointing out the advantages of coupling lenses when producing low(ish) magnification ( 1X - 5X) macro images. When using lenses( as opposed to Microscope objectives) for magnifications above 1X extension, in the form of bellows or Extension rings, is the most common approach. The key advantage in this approach is, so long as you remain within the lens' optimal magnification range, you can vary the magnification by changing the extension.

For me there is one rule of physics I am always fighting with: Light Diffraction. Both my cameras start to see Diffraction at apertures just over F6 and it is a noticeable artifact after F8. I have therefore tried to clean up my macro lens stock by having fast lenses.

Using extension changes the effective aperture and quickly brings diffraction into play. I understand this is the formula for calculating the effective aperture when using extension:

EF= M(NF+1)

EF: Effective aperture. M: magnification. NF: nominal aperture(what the lens is set to)

For a lens at F4 set to 2X magnification by extension the effective aperture is F10 which is outside the optimal range for both my cameras.

Coupling lenses involves reversing a short focal length lens and mounting it via a coupling ring( usually costs less than US$6.00 with postage) to a longer length lens( I may refer to this lens as a tube lens later on). This provides a set magnification which is calculated by dividing the focal length of the longer lens by that of the lens mounted on it. For a 40mm on an 80mm we would see 2X magnification and the effective F stop is calculated by this formula:

EF = M(NF)

At F4 the formula tells us the the effective aperture of a coupled lens system would be F8. The two stop difference in comparison to extension, does result in a noticeable difference in IQ( image quality. So if a fast lens ( say 2.8) can be used then it is possible to come in under the DLA for both my cameras. At 2 X magnification with a 2.8 aperture the effective F stop would be a very comfortable F5.6.

Noting the reported advantage I was taken with the concept and with experimentation immediately proved one often stated issue: simply finding lenses that can be successfully coupled together. Some lens couplings produce extremely small image circles that do not even cover a Micro four thirds camera sensor.

I have a variety of lenses for normal photography as well as a set of lenses for coin photography. So over the last few weeks I have tried different combinations. I quickly confirmed one rule... you cannot pair couple lenses where both have deeply in-set front elements. At least one, or better both, must have front elements that are right at the front of the lens body. It seems that the closer the front lens elements of the two lenses( to be coupled) can be placed the larger the image circle.

In my lens bag I found the following lenses produce workable( but not necessarily ideal) combinations:

Reversed lens: Schnieder Kreuznach APO Compnonon S 40/2.8 HM works with:
1. Minolta MD 135 F2 ( a high resolution manual focus lens that is hard to find and is expensive, coupling with the 40mm sees some slight vignetting on a full frame sensor.

2. Minolta MD 200mm F 2.8. ( a moderately priced lens US$200-$400)

3. Schnieder Kreuznach 210/5.6 large format Enlarger lens. This lens worked best with the SK 40mm absolutely no Vignetting, however flarelack of contrast in the center of the field was an issue.

Reversed Lens: Minolta Rokkor-W MD 24mm F 2.8 VFC( variable field curvature). This is a rare lens that was produced for Product(close up) photography it has a unique feature where by the Curvature of the Field of focus can be adjusted from Concave through flat to convex. Its expensive and works best on FF system cameras( not so good on MFT)

This lens paired well with the same tube lenses listed under the SK 40mm with almost the same results ( some slight Vignetting with the 135mm and 200 mm tube lenses and no Vignetting with the SK 210mm.

I have already stated the first con of lens coupling( finding with lenses will work together), and the second is inferred strongly in the last paragraphs the best combinations seem to be with expensive lenses. I had hoped I would find cheap combinations, The SK 50mm2.8 enlarger lens, which can be got for less than US$60.00) worked with the same tube lenses as the 40mm but those tube lenses are not( apart from the SK 210/5.6) easily found and require specialist equipment ( speed boosters) to adapt them to DSLrs.

I did a run of test photos with the SK 40 mm and the above tube lenses I added in using a Minolta 300-S 2X teleconvertor. That teleconvertor is designed to pair with the 135mm and 200mm lenses mentioned here. In normal photography it works well.

Here are the test photos( please note I repeated the shots several times and have posted the best results here. All photos have been reduced ( Bi cubic sharper) for posting.

Also please note I used a €10.00 as the test target. The micro printing figures seen in the pictures are in real life 0.3mm high( should give you some perspective). Also as the note is 2 dimensional I didn't have to use stacking.
In some shots it may not look as if the fields is flat in those pictures it is not the flatness of field that was a problem... its was the bank note that was the problem ( it was hard to get it to sit flat. In the first two photos I made the mistake of getting the labels around the wrong way. I didn't notice until after I had deleted the original photos so I cut and pasted to make the corrections:

40mm plus 135mm effective F stop 9.45


Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

40mm plus 135mm plus 2 X teleconvertor effective F stop 18.9

Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

40mm plus 200mm effective F stop 14


Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

40mm plus 200mm plus 2X convertor effective F stop 28


Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

40mm plus 210mm effective F stop 14.7


Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

40mm plus 210mm effective F stop 29.4


Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

I don't know how these series of shots look to someone who hasn't seen this technique before. I suspect to some they look impressive, certainly I was really impressed and quite excited about the effectiveness of the technique. It may have been the influence of the fun I was having that made me enthusiastic about the technique but, then I got around to making comparisons with just extension:

The SK 40mm lens is a good performer, it is designed( when reversed) to produce high resolution images. My version is the enlarger lens body but it is still being produced now ( same design) as a Machine vision lens ( slightly different body). To get it to 10X ( some times higher) I have had to combine two bellows. In the past this has not been overly satisfactory as I used a 250 mm Swiss Arca standard rail to connect the two bellows .. the 250mm was only enough too use a single mounting screw for each bellows. Recently I obtained a 300mm rail. This has resulted in a much more secure reliable means of connecting the two bellows, as I can now secure each bellows with two mounting screws. As can be seen below( both pictures show the double bellows combination with the camera adapter and reversed 40mm attached:



Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:


This is the result I achieved with this extension as I have experienced previously it looks much better than using lens coupling combined with a convertor:

Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

I calculated the magnification by simply photographing a Microscope calibration slide:



Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:


It may be hard to see the difference in IQ between extension and coupling. So here is a simple comparison shot. I cropped a section out of the image created using the 40mm coupled with the Minolta 200 mm and convertor( this was not a 100 % crop) I then cropped the same area from the extension photo. I then pasted them together.... and then I applied the reduction for posting here:



Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

( note I found the same result at all magnification levels Extension was producing better IQ) For the above comparison I used the 40-200 coupling picture. This was because the teleconvertor was designed to fit that particular lens and in theory the IQ should be as good as it possibly could be. I had found that the SK 210 covered the FF sensor better but it suffered from flaring in the center of the lens

The theory states the lens coupling should produce the better results( I base this statement on the reduced diffraction). My experience has been that extension is better than coupling. I believe the fact the lens coupling hasn't matched the theory is due to optical design issues. I am assuming the combinations I used introduced image degradation. Given my experience I suspect that it is hard to find lenses that are perfectly matched.

I had a lot of fun trying the different lenses out. All I have confirmed is that Extension ( using bellows in this case) is the better option for me to produce high magnification shots, probably because there is a lot less to go wrong.
Edited by austrokiwi
12/01/2016 10:13 am
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 Posted 12/01/2016  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
very well done AK . excellent read thank you very well done.
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 Posted 12/01/2016  4:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice experimental work. I can't explain why coupling is worse, but indeed it is probably something to do with the optical formulas. It could also be due to aspects of the tube lens reducing the contrast. Was the tube lens set for infinity focus? Your objective is not designed for infinity focus, so this might be part of the issue, but the difference is bigger than I'd expect from that cause.
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 Posted 12/02/2016  01:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Was the tube lens set for infinity focus?


The two Minolta Tube lenses ( the 135mm and 200mm) were not set to infinity. I started with them set to infinity but the vignetting was extreme. I found I needed to adjust the focusing helicoid so as to minimize the vignetting. I realize from your question that the Minolta Tube lenses may not have been set to the ideal focus. However there is no point testing again as I know that if the Sharper focus is at another point the image will suffer severe vignetting.

I am having a bit of a Homer Simpson moment in regards to the SK 210/5.6 tube lens. I had set that to infinity.

Why?
Ans: I was not that familiar with the technique I had read somewhere that tube lenses needed to be set to infinity focus. However I now realize that may have been in reference to just using an infinity microscope objective. AS you point out the SK40/2.8 can't focus to infinity so now of course it seems obvious that setting the tube lens to infinity focus is not appropriate. Over the weekend I will try adjusting the SK210 focus to see if there is some improvement in IQ.

If anything this "enlightenment" regarding infinity focus shows just how hard it is to find Tube lenses that are adequate to the task. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the Minolta tube lenses were not focused appropriately for the SK40mm, then it is clear they are not effective as tube lenses( due to the vignetting at every other focus point). Even on APSC the vignetting I experienced would be an issue.

I will in the next week, or so, re-test those two tube lenses with the MD 24/2.8 VFC. The 40/2.8 has a recessed front element so that may be limiting its utility. The VFC may actually be better but with a caveat.... It is a wide angle lens and it does suffer from the distortion typical of such lenses. Additionally it does produce noticeable chromatic aberration. With my Sony camera( I have no idea if this feature is available to other cameras) I have installed an app that allows me to set up a lens profile in the Camera so that the in camera processor corrects both the distortion and the CA. Even if I get it to work it probably won't be satisfactory on other Camera systems. Just its price ( US$600 - US$1000.00) recommends against it. It is much more useful used in the manner it was designed for

I am going to assume many cameras do not have the facility for setting an in Camera lens adjustment profile. So even if I ultimately find the VFC lens performs well. It will still demonstrate that finding effective lens pairs for this technique is very difficult.

This may be stating ( perhaps restating) the obvious. Using a bellows is clearly the simpler technique. I have done this for fun If I was doing this for a serious purpose I would have given up long ago. For me that is the most valuable lesson in my experimentation.

Edit: I took the time out to recheck with the SK210 enlarger lens as a tube lens. I didn't set infinity focus rather I used a microscope calibration slide and adjusted the extension until I had the predicted magnification (5.25X). I then removed the SK40mm and checked what sort of focus I had( because on my macro rig the extension looked very close to infinity focus) It was shorter than infinity focus. Then I mounted the reversed 40mm onto a bellows ( I had to add some extension rings) I then adjusted the extension until I had the same magnification. If you check the two mag test photos you will see I was out very slightly but for this test it was a minor issue.

The effective F values were 1. With Tube lens F 14.7 2. With extension F19.95

Here are the photos ( first the mag tests) then the 10 Euro note photographs( note ignore the label that says 5X it should read 5.25 X):







Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

The comparison crops

Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

On my computer screens (I have two in operation) I now see reality matching the theory:

Look at the line about the letters and numbers, in the extension picture you can see stronger diffraction artifacts than those in the coupled crop. I believe the 2X teleconvertor was the major issue with the pictures I produced when using the SK210 as a tube lens. IN regards to the other two lenses I just think they are unsuitable due to vignetting( I am sure I could find a sharper focus point with both of them... but it would be at the expense of an adequate image circle

Edit 2

I tried the 24mm with the 135mm. The results were not good.

I used the same technique as I outlined in the first edit.

In the second photo the blue arrows point to the vignetting( light fall off) in both photos you can see that the image circle is too small for a ff sensor... it would work on an APSC sensor....but given the results I wouldn't recommend trying



Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:

Comparing-Extension-With-Lens-Coupling:
Edited by austrokiwi
12/02/2016 04:54 am
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 Posted 12/04/2016  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AK what was you using for lighting. I like the way the way the photos are so evenly lite up. again very good excellently done.
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 Posted 12/08/2016  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I used a microscope ring light( LED)
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