| Author |
 Replies: 58 / Views: 5,361 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
4911 Posts |
What I am saying is the different strikes are treated differently when grading, desirability has nothing to do with it. My coin and your coin technically are no where close, my example has near flawless surfaces and no contact marks where as your coin has obvious signs of handling and being with other coins like it was intended to be, unlike a specimen would..and I am sticking to what I said earlier, my example with this level of surface preservation would be an MS-66 or better if it was a circulation strike where as your mint state 64's level of preservation would be a SP-60 if it were a specimen strike with the same chatter and contact marks. I feel like you're missing what I'm trying to say here.
Feel free to call me Will.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
IF your coin has practically flawless surfaces and Zero contact marks it would have graded better than 64, It didn't. TPG's do NOT grade coins differently because they are either proofs or Specimens the SAME criteria is used for ALL coins, tokens and medals. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
How about you look at a PF-64 Morgan and an MS-64 Morgan..there's a very obvious difference regarding the amount of surface disturbances..
Feel free to call me Will.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
How about you look at a PF-64 Morgan and an MS-64 Morgan..there's a very obvious difference regarding the amount of surface disturbances.. You will find that the reason for this is because a PF coin has mirror fields and the planchets have been polished prior to being struck. A business strike does not have mirror fields and has an uneven texture that looks like contact marks but is only a result of using standard blanks in a production press. So a PF or SP coin will have perfectly smooth and mirror like areas on the coin where there has been No contact But with an MS coin there are No mirror like areas on the coin because they were never there in the first place. Edited by trout1105
12/12/2016 05:38 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
trout...I'm sorry but you're way off here too.
Miles apart between an ms64 and a SP64 in visual appearance and an experienced grader should never identify a SP coin as MS.
And I hope I'm interpreting your posts correctly but an ms64 dollar does not have the same imperfections as an sp64, so to commend the poster that said this coin was an ms64 as being a very good guess is totally incorrect.
I don't know why I'm sounding like such a Scrooge in my post, especially at this joyous time of year, but I'm sticking with my above noted opinion.
Edited by doubleeagle59
12/13/2016 7:06 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I am not saying that a SP64 coin is the Same as a MS64 coin. What I am saying is that 64 grade given to both coins is because both coins have the same degree of imperfections  An MS coin will never LOOK the same as an equally graded SP coin because of the quality of the strike on the SP coin and in most cases will be more visually appealing But if it has the same amount of imperfections as the MS coin it will get exactly the same grade. Edited by trout1105
12/13/2016 8:47 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
This is exactly what I'm disagreeing with..................
"What I am saying is that 64 grade given to both coins is because both coins have the same degree of imperfections"
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
This is exactly what I'm disagreeing with..................
"What I am saying is that 64 grade given to both coins is because both coins have the same degree of imperfections" Why  Please explain Why two coins with the same degree of imperfections should NOT get the same numerical grade. Regardless of if a coin is MS, PR or SP the numerical grade is what it is and that is an assessment of a coins condition. To give a coin a higher numerical grade just because it is SP or PR is BS. The attribution eg, SP tells you the coins pedigree and the numbers tell you what the condition/grade the coin is, Quite simple really Edited by trout1105
12/13/2016 11:29 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
Quote:
This is exactly what I'm disagreeing with..................
"What I am saying is that 64 grade given to both coins is because both coins have the same degree of imperfections"  I don't know if I've explained the best I could..usually I'm not the greatest..but I think I made my point very clear which I believe doubleeagle59 agrees with.. Feel free to call me Will.
Edited by thedollarman
12/13/2016 11:39 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
@trout I've explained to you why a SP coin and a MS coin won't get the same numerical grade with the same amount of flaws..
Feel free to call me Will.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
And I hope I'm interpreting your posts correctly but an ms64 dollar does not have the same imperfections as an sp64, so to commend the poster that said this coin was an ms64 as being a very good guess is totally incorrect.
I NEVER commended anyone for calling the OP's coin MS64 I am acutely aware of the differences between a Specimen and a Business strike coin, Have a look at my posts regarding the Australian Wedding Set coins. I also have Many Canadian Specimen coins in my collection, both graded and Raw. However when grading ANY coin regardless of how it is manufactured or even Where it is Minted makes absolutely NO difference, The Same rules apply. I never assume that a Specimen or Proof coin will achieve a higher numerical grade than what it technically is because NONE of the TPG's will do this either. I have had Hundreds of Proof and Specimen coins graded by PCGS and NGC and I haven't had many surprises when I have received my grades. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
To further explain my post..........
---------------This is exactly what I'm disagreeing with..................
"What I am saying is that 64 grade given to both coins is because both coins have the same degree of imperfections"---------------
All I can say to this is based on my plus 20 years of seeing hundreds if not more, ICCS graded ms64 and sp64 Canadian dollars, the imperfections are NOT the same. I can't be absolutely sure why this is, it's just the way it is.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
All I can say to this is based on my plus 20 years of seeing hundreds if not more, ICCS graded ms64 and sp64 Canadian dollars, the imperfections are NOT the same. I can't be absolutely sure why this is, it's just the way it is.
I do find that to be quite "Odd". I have never sent a coin to ICCS to be graded but I have had a few cross over at PCGS at the same grade. The Specimen Canadian Dollars are a FAR nicer looking coin that their business strike counterparts But I wouldn't think that this would affect the technical or numeric grade assigned to the coin. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote:
All I can say to this is based on my plus 20 years of seeing hundreds if not more, ICCS graded ms64 and sp64 Canadian dollars, the imperfections are NOT the same. I can't be absolutely sure why this is, it's just the way it is.
I complete agree here.. I've seen a lot of SP coins over the last 40 years. SP and MS coins are not graded equally when it comes to ticks or fine contacts IMHO.. SP coins will drop very quickly in grade if fine contacts are showing..(ie: mishandling) and never traveled in a bag..and it will take more contacts on an MS coin to get that same numerical grade .. ..and that's probably because the MS coin came out of a traveled bag to the tellers drawer..and fine contacts are expected.. Just my opinion on what I've seen..but SPP would have an even better handle on this subject as he's seen and handled a lot of each.. . Edited by DEVLEC
12/14/2016 09:43 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
I agree Devlec with your explanation.
|
| |
Replies: 58 / Views: 5,361 |
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 12/12/2016 02:50 am
