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Random Thoughts About The 2016 Nps Commemorative Half Dollars

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clairhardesty's Avatar
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1027 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2017  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add clairhardesty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is important to remember that the supply/demand ratio in the market does not depend on mintage on the supply side but rather on the number of coins currently available in the marketplace. A coin of relatively high mintage can have a high market value if the vast majority of the coins are being held tightly.
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 Posted 01/04/2017  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why would collectors tightly hold coins with relatively high mintage and make other more rare coins available? How does supply and demand work in the coin markets? I have yet to figure it out especially for the Morgan silver dollars. I know for the Morgans there was a big melt down in 1918 and for gold coins that were minted in 20's and 30's because of FDR and his policy. For commemoratives it seems supply and demand work better except for any coin I buy. When I buy the coin it puts a curse on them.
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one_fine_dime's Avatar
United States
591 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2017  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ahh, yes, the ol' strong hands / weak hands dichotomy. Unfortunately, it seems a decent percent of the US Mint customers these days are what are often referred to as "flippers". Not to disparage anyone that might do so, but there is a big difference between those who buy these coins on speculation towards selling on ebay in the near term, and those that truly appreciate these designs and what they stand for as numismatic representations of American heritage and history...and buy them for inclusion in a collection.

So, I think the supply/demand dynamics are incredibly complex.

With this series, low mintage is always for a lack of interest/demand. That is simply how it works. If gold prices go up, then demand may also go down. So overall mintage on these seems to be a factor of 1) gold price during sale, 2) number of other mint offerings that may divide demand, 3) quality of design and appeal of subject, and 4) whether or not the sales figures in the final week appear low enough to possibly break the current low mintage champion.

I think the after market prices are then also determined by 3) and obviously on the going gold price. Where the particular issue had strong design appeal, then there will likely be more specimens held in collections rather than being offered on the market, which can both decrease supply and increase demand. The few extremely low mintage issues may have their own inherent complexity...like the 1997 Jackie Robinson. Fairly ugly design (artistically by most standards) likely reduced demand during US Mint sale, which resulted in extremely low mintage, which increased after market demand as this issue became the low mintage key for 20 years.
Valued Member
United States
424 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2017  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldephriam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I figured I would have about one or two replies to this post at best. I guess at this point I will throw in my Two Cents worth of base metal thoughts about this whole debate.

@clairhardesty; the best example I can think of about how wacky the whole supply/demand thing can get in the numismatic world is the story of the 1950-D Jefferson nickel.

@terry8835; when I think of high priced non silver modern coins the 1997-P Jefferson matte finish nickel comes right to mind (Mintage of around 25,000). As for curses, I know what you mean! When I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago I was hoping for sales below 19,000 for the NPS 50C unc, now look what happened.

Besides the two aforementioned coins the only other two moderns in this Mintage neighborhood are the reverse proof Truman and Eisenhower pres dollars. It is odd to think that out of this group of four coins the half dollar will likely be the only one to stay at a low cost to collectors. Maybe in another 40 years it will be different.
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2017  12:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's the age-old "I have one, do you want one?". Who can figure that out? My wife got one as a Christmas gift from her boss (2016 NPS clad UNC half). So it was free, and will sit in the box of stuff until the next generation. When either lots of people want one, or almost nobody wants one. Place your bets!
Edited by kbbpll
01/05/2017 12:54 am
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kbbpll's Avatar
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4233 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm seeing a bit of an increase on these. Anybody else? The cheapest I see on ebay now is $39.49. One seller is advertising as "new king of the modern commems", and I see 31 listings including proofs. High price $295 for an MS70 "first strike".
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Foxwoods Man's Avatar
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Last sales for raw unc's were $30.79, $39.49, and $29.79...market is still developing and will do so for quite a while

First Strike 70's doing fine last being $299.99. The ship has sailed on getting that designation.

Listed prices are a bit higher than actual completed sales prices but that is to be expected.
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kbbpll's Avatar
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4233 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2017  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The cheapest BIN on ebay today is $51.99 free shipping. There are a bunch of certified MS69 being auctioned so I'm watching a few.
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United States
424 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldephriam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The latest sales report from the mint has the number sold at 21,030. Will this drop below 21,000 in the next few weeks? What happens to the coins that are returned? Are they remelted or put in deep storage? Is the final Mintage figure released by the mint the number sold adjusted after returns or the total number minted including all returned coins?

Does someone know the answers to these questions?
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one_fine_dime's Avatar
United States
591 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2017  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Is the final Mintage figure released by the mint the number sold adjusted after returns or the total number minted including all returned coins? "

I do believe the weekly mintage figures are adjusted for returns. That is, if you compare from week to week, you'll see some decreases.

http://news.coinupdate.com/ will report and comment on weekly sales reports (movers and shakers, etc), but sometimes it takes a week or two to see an update. The US Mint Sales figures are available on the US Mint site.

The coin update website releases "US Mint Sales Reports" under the " US coins" banner at the top of the main page. They show comparison in sales to the previous week and a +/- field.

Going directly to the source:
https://competition.usmint.gov/cumu...les-figures/

I just looked at the "Data Through Week Ending January 15, 2017" and it shows mintage on the UNC NPS half at 21,030, which is down from the previous week's number of 21,328. So it does look like a few hundred returns. Who knows, maybe it'll decrease further if some returns haven't been processed yet.

My impression is that returns and unsold coins are melted.
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kbbpll's Avatar
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4233 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2017  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also noted that the mintage went down this week. Cheapest BIN price is now $58.86 and I'm watching 10 no reserve auctions for slabbed MS69 almost all from the same seller and all ending within a few hours of each other on Sunday (which doesn't seem too smart as a seller strategy to me). Fun to watch. Any guesses where price will settle? 1996 Olympic Swimming UNC seems to be around $100 with 2.5 times the mintage.
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