Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Specializing in Modern Numismatics Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1792 - 2017 High Relief Gold And Silver Medal

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 1,990Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
one_fine_dime's Avatar
United States
591 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  12:25 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've seen some discussions on coin blogs and Numismatic News sites. Haven't seen any active topics on CCF about it. For me, the gold is out of my price range, but the silver seemed an option. In the end I skipped the medal as it lacked my favorite motto E Pluribis Unum and was only issued as a proof. So odd, two mints, both proofs.

Does anyone know why the Mint can produce the gold bullion w/o a new enacting legislation, but only a silver medal and not a silver bullion coin?

What do people think of the 2015 Liberty gold coin and the forthcoming 2017 issue?
Pillar of the Community
llewellin's Avatar
United States
1005 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  12:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add llewellin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not a fan of the design, so certainly wouldn't pay up for the gold version. If the silver one is released at a reasonable price I might go for it so long as the flippers and profiteers don't get to it first.
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  08:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does anyone know why the Mint can produce the gold bullion w/o a new enacting legislation, but only a silver medal and not a silver bullion coin?

It has to do with how the laws were written. In general, the mint is only allowed to produce those coins specified by Congress. But the legislation that authorized the gold bullion coins gave the Director of the Mint the power to specify designs, and weights for the gold bullion coins. That was why he could produce the gold dime, quarter and half dollar this year without having to get legislation through congress. Since the coins were .999 fine gold they were "gold bullion coins and could be made under his authority. But silver versions would have required getting a law passed through the Congress and signed by the President.
CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
Learn More...
commems's Avatar
United States
12267 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does anyone know why the Mint can produce the gold bullion w/o a new enacting legislation, but only a silver medal and not a silver bullion coin?

No new legislation for the gold 2015 American Liberty coin was necessary as the Secretary of the Treasury was given authorization to produce gold coins such as the American Liberty series via approved updates to Title 31, Chapter 51 of the US Code; the updates took effect back in 2011.

The same legislation would allow the Mint to strike a different silver $1.00 bullion coin than the current Silver Eagle, but the Treasury Department / Mint is not looking to create an internal competitor to its very successful Silver Eagle program. The Mint, however, does have standing authority to strike national medals (in silver and/or other metals). It made the decision early on, likely based on recommendations for a series of "Liberty medals" made by the Citizens Coin Advisory Committee in 2014, to strike a medal using the same designs as on the gold coin (minus the required coin inscriptions / mottoes).


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
Pillar of the Community
Debrajc's Avatar
United States
4211 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2016  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Debrajc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I like the series and bought the 2015 HR Gold and the 2016 silver proof medals.

Not sure if I will purchase the 2017 HR Gold yet.
But I would like to continue the silver medal series regardless.



1792---2017-High-Relief-Gold-And-Silver-Medal

1792---2017-High-Relief-Gold-And-Silver-Medal

1792---2017-High-Relief-Gold-And-Silver-Medal
Pillar of the Community
one_fine_dime's Avatar
United States
591 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2017  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Debrajc - wow, nice pics. For the medal, I personally prefer the look of the business strike to the proof, I didn't try to buy the silver in part due to this medal being struck in proof only. Hoping for a business strike Liberty medal in 2017.

condor101 & commems -
I see your point, but 31 U.S. Code § 5112 (e) seems pretty open in that other designs could be minted, even multiple designs:
(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in qualities and quantities that the Secretary determines are sufficient to meet public demand, coins which—
(1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams;
(2) contain .999 fine silver;
(3) have a design—
(A) symbolic of Liberty on the obverse side; and
(B) of an eagle on the reverse side;
(4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words "Liberty", "In God We Trust", "United States of America", "1 Oz. Fine Silver", "E Pluribus Unum", and "One Dollar"; and
(5) have reeded edges.

I'm not convinced that minting a new year-to-year Liberty silver coin would create any so called "internal competitor to its very successful Silver Eagle program". By this logic, one could argue that the Liberty gold coins would be internal competitors to the American Gold Eagle program.

I'm honestly disappointment that aside from the gold, this design (and the new modern Liberty series) is being offered as a silver medal (and not a silver coin). Medals do not show up in the annual Red Book (as far as I've seen), and my impression is that they are not considered on par with coins in the numismatic community. That is, they will necessarily be relegated to a peripheral realm of niche medal collecting, which I think is odd and unfortunate. So the wealthy among us who can afford these 1 oz gold coins every year will be buying something that is considered within the cannon of coin collecting, while those of a more modest budget who buy the silver medal will be buying something that is NOT considered within that same cannon.

Thoughts on this type of consideration?

Also, the relatively large percent of open fields on the medal just looks odd. For me, there is just an irritating inconsistency with the great cultural heritage in American numismatics without E Pluribus Unum.
Pillar of the Community
Foxwoods Man's Avatar
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2017  07:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two comments (well maybe three) re: silver medal

..SOMEONE must think these are mainstream collectables. A PF70 set of these two $35 medals released over 4 months ago went for $510 earlier today.

..My feeling (Captain Obvious) is that the Mint is going to make this a yearly product and keep it at a very reasonable price. Mintage levels will determine the value of future year issues.


Quote:
I see your point, but 31 U.S. Code § 5112 (e) seems pretty open in that other designs could be minted, even multiple designs:


..The quote you included is pretty cut and dry specific as to design and composition. I don't see ant wiggle room there at all,

I understand that these are not coins by any means but they will be (are) collectibles.

I should add that had the Mint put mintage levels at 500,000 these would still be on sale and would go nowhere.
Edited by Foxwoods Man
01/02/2017 07:48 am
Pillar of the Community
one_fine_dime's Avatar
United States
591 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2017  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

..The quote you included is pretty cut and dry specific as to design and composition. I don't see any wiggle room there at all.

I do believe the Liberty medal meets all the requirements of 31 U.S. Code § 5112 (e), except the US Mint chose to skip four out of the seven required inscriptions from part (4), and thereby made it a medal.

It is completely unclear why this occurred. I see nothing about commems comment about internal competition with the ASE that makes sense from a dollar-and-cents perspective. In other words, anyone could have purchased an ASE in 2016 AND/OR a Liberty silver bullion coin. This part (e) of the law does not say only one design can be offered in a given year. More options are not "competition".

Am I missing something here, because you are right, this is very cut and dry?
  Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 1,990Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.27 seconds to rattle this change. Forums