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1983 Near And Far Beads Photo Examples Wanted

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 Posted 02/21/2018  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just for fun... even ICCS gets it wrong sometimes... (both are Far Beads). Seeing these misattributed Proof 'Near Beads' in ICCS flips for sale about 8 years ago on ebay put me on a wild goose chase for many years, until I spoke with someone from the Royal Canadian Mint in Ottawa, who told me only one master obverse die (punch or matrix) was used to create the working dies for the proof sets.

1983-Near-And-Far-Beads-Photo-Examples-Wanted
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 06/24/2020  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you can post photos of how grading companies get it wrong, then why can't you post photos of 1983 Far Beads and Near Beads side by side in PL and SP? All I have ever asked from you was that you post photographic evidence for the entire group to see that Far Beads exist in PL and SP. I have also pointed out that no place on the Internet is there a single photo proving 1983 Far Beads exists in anything other than circulation strike. I have looked in several different Charlton Catalogues and have not found one photo of 1983 Far Beads in anything other than regular circulation strike BU. I also asked you to direct me to a dealer that can sell me these coins so I can complete my collection, but you have not. I have found dealers claiming to have 1983 in Far Beads, but when I have purchased pennies from them, they have all been Near Beads. If you say you have them, I do not know why you do not just post photos of Far and Near beads side by side like you did above and end all doubts. The photos are your intellectual property and cannot be used in a publication without your written permission. If you work with Charlton, have them put photos in the next Charlton or write a book entitled Canada Small Cents Varieties and Attribution guide. Maybe you could include estimate mintages and diagnostics to help identify each variety correctly. If it has large color photos showing the different varieties, I would most likely buy it or the digital version if I can afford it. That is what is missing from the markets, a guide to Canada Small Cents that covers all the varieties in all strike types.
Edited by pasasap
06/24/2020 11:48 am
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 Posted 06/24/2020  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That is what is missing from the markets, a guide to Canada Small Cents that covers all the varieties in all strike types.


Aside from the large cent Victorian die studies of select years by Haxby and Turner, proper Canadian catalogues are are decades (if not more) behind compared to the information available to collectors in the US. Even Zoell catalogues from the 1960s are still being used, for that's about all we have. There simply is not the market or demand for such references, and there are very few collectors (and zero dealers) dedicated to even studying Canadian coins beyond 1901. A perfect example are the handful of small cent double die obverse discoveries made in just the last year by one or two CCF members who even bother to look (e.g., JohnWayne007 here on CCF). Imagine that - coins from 1940s and 1950s with doubled die obverse discoveries made in 2020. Nobody cared or bothered to look before... and most collectors in Canada still don't care. Proper variety catalogues have to be a labour of love by a collector, because unlike a cherry-picking guide in the US, the "Field of Dreams" model does not work in Canada with coin catalogues. I did do a small catalogue of sorts with the 70th edition Charlton catalogue, and even put in a few new discoveries... how many collectors even bothered to find raw 1951 DDO or a 1978 with a large, high 8? I can probably count them on one hand... You didn't even have a 1967 DDO as a major variety in your collection you posted in the other subforum... have you even tried to hunt for one? No dealer will have one their inventory - they'll just try to sell you 1c BU 1967 rolls - because they don't care. They care even less with 1980s mint products...


Quote:
I do not know why you do not just post photos of Far and Near beads side by side like you did above and end all doubts.


The only doubts that exist, are the ones you harbour... my intention is to send them to PCGS when (or if) I decide to complete my PL and SP registry sets. Usually I don't share my photos (and that includes almost every image I do post) until PCGS posts the TrueView images.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 04/22/2024  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have discovered that for 1983 Canada Small Cents in Proof there are two bead sizes probably because the die was polished and cause the reduction in the bead size at the end of the production. The Large Beads variety are all in cameo and the Small Beads variety do not seem to be found heavily frosted. This leads me to believe that Far Beads in PL and SP might also be a result of die polishing, but are in fact Near Beads varieties with either larger looking beads that appear slightly closer to the rim and smaller looking beads that are slightly further from the rim because of the smaller diameter of the beads. I have Far Beads and Near Beads in Business Strikes (also called circulation strikes), but not in any other mint strike type (PL, SP, or PR). The guide states that Far Beads exists in PL and has a value of $1 in PL64. The problem is I have never seen one offered. I was sent a photo of one graded, but when I compaired it with photos of a Far Beads I have in a Business Strike, it did not match. It matched the Near Beads, so it had to be incorrectly identified. All I have been saying is either connect me to a dealer who sells these in pair in PL with one of each variety or post some photos of Far Beads in PL, SP, or Proof side by side with the Near Beads Variety in the same strike type. Because there are no photos. and the photos in the books are all Business Strikes of Far Beads, there are no photos of Far Beads in any other strike type. And to date, all the ones that have been graded appear to be misidentified. Also, the dealers who claimed to have Far Beads in PL all sent me misidentified Near Beads Varieties. So, for me, it appears Far Beads only exist in Business Strikes. Also, a few Canada based Coin dealers have told me the same thing. I even have about ten dealers looking for these and nobody has found any. A person even wrote about this variety and said it was a wild goose chase. I just want some photgraphic proof this variety exists in another strike type other than Business Strike because right now it seems it does not exist should show us some photos.
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 Posted 04/22/2024  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More than six years since you began this quest.
Full marks for dogged determination.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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 Posted 04/26/2024  11:28 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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