1983 Near And Far Beads Photo Examples Wanted

Well, I got some of the coins, but I am still missing some.

I need 1983 Far Beads for Proof-Like and Specimen. Also, there is still the possibility that Far Beads exist in Proof. I may have gotten bad information from one of the dealers. The newest Charlton suggest it exist. I guess none of these are actually rare, but I am having a hard time finding a dealer that identifies them correctly and sells both varieties in PL, SP, and Proof. If someone has access to these and can sell them to me cheaply that would help. I do not know what are the rules on here for purchases between members, but I would be happy to go to ebay and buy the coins there. Just let me know you have listed them, and what item number to look up. I have only a few more after these three, then I am calling it quits for now. There are others, but most are very expensive, and I am not going to collect anything with a value over $50. I now have 1936 to 2012 in Business Strike BU; 1953 & 1956 to 2012 in PL; 1964, 1965, 1967, and 1971 to 2012 in Specimen Strike; and 1981 to 2012 in Proof. I also have most varieties that exist that are less than $50. I still have a few 1940's to get in BU Red, and the three Far Beads 1983's, and I will be satisfied. This journey started in 2015, and will end roughly two years later. I have learned a lot about BU, PL, SP, and Proof, and what they mean for Canada Small Cents. I have also learned a lot of about different varieties. I never set out to become an expert really, just to have a nice set worth looking at and sharing. I think I pretty much accomplish that goal. Just a few more coins and it is done. Thank you for your patience and all your help. :)

I wanted to update this last posting. Well, I thought I had gotten 1983 Far Beads in PL, but I made the posting before I actually had the coins in my hands. I purchased the pennies from a dealer who said he had both varieties in stock in PL (NBU) (from the mint sets). When I got the pennies, both were Near Beads. One was marked incorrectly as Far Beads.

After spending nearly a year hunting for Far Beads in PL, SP, and Proof, I have come to the conclusion that it does not exist in those mint strike types. All the Far Beads purchases that I made for PL 1983 pennies turned out to be Near Beads. Not one was actually Far Beads in PL. I was not able to find anyone selling Far Beads in Specimen or Proof. Also, I have not found any photographic evidence anywhere on the Internet or in any book proving both Far and Near Beads exist in all four Mint strike types. Out of the 40+ coin dealers that I talked with, most told me they did not believe Far Beads existed in anything other than regular strike (Business Strike) (Circulation Strike) (Pennies taken from bank rolls that were minted to be used in circulation). So, do not waste a year hunting for a ghost that does not exist like I did. If you decide to collect Canada Small Cents in regular strike BU, Proof-Like, Specimen Strike, and Proof as I did, do not get discourage when you cannot find Far Beads in anything but regular BU (MS). It only exist in regular BU that is why you cannot find it and nobody sells it. The Charlton is wrong in stating both varieties exist in all four strike types. And do not be fooled when a dealer sells you a 1983 PL, SP, or PR penny marked Far Beads. It is most likely not. It is most likely just a Near Beads marked as Far Beads incorrectly. But, if you do find both Far Beads and Near Beads in anything other than regular strike BU, then please post photos proving it. You will be the first person to do so on the entire Internet.

I am officially declaring my Canada Small Cent collection 1956 to 2012 in MS, PL, SP, and PR as being complete. I have everything minted that could be purchased and that was proven to exist. Mission accomplish. ;) Thank you for those who helped by answering my many questions. God Bless.

But they do exist in PL and SP strikes. I have told you, more than once, that they existed, even in this very thread.




How many people in this forum would agree that any number of coin dealers are experts on Canadian modern 1-cent varieties? My vote would be none. But hey, I have only been collecting and studying Canadian small cent varieties for 15 years, and I authored the 70th edition of the Charlton Catalogue variety section on small cents (1920-2012), and authored a number of articles on Canadian small cents in my 'Canadian Spice' column of the CN Journal for five years now... yet, you refuse to take my word on this.

I searched almost 10,000 1983 PL sets over a period of five years, and I found maybe a dozen or so PL of the Far Beads. I searched over 2000 specimen sets in 8 years, and found five far beads. I stopped searching a few years ago and I cannot explain the scarcity... I highly doubt that any coin dealer carrying Canadian stock is going to care, let alone search, NCLT non-silver coins for a minor variety that maybe a dozen collectors are going to care about... dealers are awash in 1980s mint products that they themselves cannot unload, often cracking out the silver dollar from proof sets for melt, and throwing the rest in a junk bin.




Proven by whom? Does your set include the one cent 1978 High 8? That is a definitely the result of a different die with a larger font in the final digit. See page 314 of the 70th Edition Charlton catalogue.

I understanding how rewarding set completion is... trust me, I lived that almost selling a kidney (metaphorically speaking) for a coinage 1982 Constitution nickel dollar just to have 100% completion in my PCGS Registry set.... I get it completely. Part of collecting varieties, for many of us (and this includes pre-confederate token, Vicky large cent, all the way through to nickel dollars), is the thrill of the hunt... there are collectors out there who are still searching for an 1881H Single Serif N large cent after a decade of hunting... my question to you is, why would you give up the hunt after only a year?

There is no photographic evidence that proves that 1983 Far Beads exist in all four mint strike types, MS, PL, SP, and PR. Near Beads does exist, but not Far Beads. Far Beads only exist in business strike (circulation strikes) form. Whenever anyone suggest that Far Beads exist in PL, SP, or PR, they always refer to the Charlton. SSP-Ottawa, you even posted that the Charlton was incorrect. The Charlton says that Far Beads exists in Proof, but you said it does not, so either the book is incorrect or you are. The Charlton also fails to provide photographic evidence of its claims. In the book, you will find as an example two business strike pennies. In fact, everywhere on the Internet that has a photo showing Far and Near Beads side by side you will find that the photographer uses business strikes for the sample and not pennies taken from mint sets.

Now some dealer made the claim they had Far Beads in PL, but in all cases they had identified the coins incorrectly. All of them where Near Beads marked Far Beads.

The online price guide on this website says it uses the Charlton as a reference book. That price guide list both Far and Near Beads in MS, PL, and SP, but has no price listings for Proof coinage. Far Beads in MS-65 is listed for $1, in PL-64 is listed for $1, and in SP-66 is listed for $5. Near Beads in MS-65 is listed for $24, in PL-64 is listed for $2, and in SP-66 is listed for $10.

Clearly the price guide does not recognize Far Beads as being rare. Although I would say the truth is it does not exist at all in PL and SP.

A PCGS Certified dealer who deals specifically in Canada coins told me that PCGS does not recognize Far Beads as a variety in anything other than circulation issue coinage. PCGS has never graded or slabbed a Far Beads penny from a mint set. In the completed Specimen set registry there is no spot for a 1983 Far Beads.

1983 Far and Near Beads varieties are not some obscure oddities that very few people know about. In fact, they are very popular. So much so that many Canada Small Cent folders and albums include a spot for both varieties. So, if Far Beads is so extremely rare, then it would stand to reason that it would be extremely valuable because the varieties are so popular. Try purchasing a 2005-P Non-Magnetic or maybe a 1955 NSF for only $20.

Without photographic evidence proving that Far Beads exist in anything other than circulation strike type, I am not going to believe it. And because there are dealers marking Near Beads as Far Beads in PL, other collectors need to be aware that this variety probably does not exist in PL. I always give people the benefit of the doubt, but after a while, you just need to see it for yourself to believe it.

One of the most important lessons I teach the graduate students I supervise, is just because you read something published in a book, or even in a peer-reviewed journal, does not always mean it is correct. Science advances by questioning the known...

Sometimes Bill Cross refused to make the edits in the Charlton catalogue, even when they were pointed out to him (the $2 Pixie Ear coin comes to mind). I honestly think he was afraid of edits to his archaic publishing software he was using.

My collecting speciality is Canadian nickel dollars and small cents. I would pit my knowledge in this series against any catalogue or PCGS Certified dealer (in fact, PCGS comes directly to me with questions on occasion).

But, you don't have to believe it, nobody is forcing you... but do stop spreading misinformation on their existence. Personally, I would not give up the hunt. Keep checking those PL and SP sets...

If you can post photos of how grading companies get it wrong, then why can't you post photos of 1983 Far Beads and Near Beads side by side in PL and SP? All I have ever asked from you was that you post photographic evidence for the entire group to see that Far Beads exist in PL and SP. I have also pointed out that no place on the Internet is there a single photo proving 1983 Far Beads exists in anything other than circulation strike. I have looked in several different Charlton Catalogues and have not found one photo of 1983 Far Beads in anything other than regular circulation strike BU. I also asked you to direct me to a dealer that can sell me these coins so I can complete my collection, but you have not. I have found dealers claiming to have 1983 in Far Beads, but when I have purchased pennies from them, they have all been Near Beads. If you say you have them, I do not know why you do not just post photos of Far and Near beads side by side like you did above and end all doubts. The photos are your intellectual property and cannot be used in a publication without your written permission. If you work with Charlton, have them put photos in the next Charlton or write a book entitled Canada Small Cents Varieties and Attribution guide. Maybe you could include estimate mintages and diagnostics to help identify each variety correctly. If it has large color photos showing the different varieties, I would most likely buy it or the digital version if I can afford it. That is what is missing from the markets, a guide to Canada Small Cents that covers all the varieties in all strike types.

I have discovered that for 1983 Canada Small Cents in Proof there are two bead sizes probably because the die was polished and cause the reduction in the bead size at the end of the production. The Large Beads variety are all in cameo and the Small Beads variety do not seem to be found heavily frosted. This leads me to believe that Far Beads in PL and SP might also be a result of die polishing, but are in fact Near Beads varieties with either larger looking beads that appear slightly closer to the rim and smaller looking beads that are slightly further from the rim because of the smaller diameter of the beads. I have Far Beads and Near Beads in Business Strikes (also called circulation strikes), but not in any other mint strike type (PL, SP, or PR). The guide states that Far Beads exists in PL and has a value of $1 in PL64. The problem is I have never seen one offered. I was sent a photo of one graded, but when I compaired it with photos of a Far Beads I have in a Business Strike, it did not match. It matched the Near Beads, so it had to be incorrectly identified. All I have been saying is either connect me to a dealer who sells these in pair in PL with one of each variety or post some photos of Far Beads in PL, SP, or Proof side by side with the Near Beads Variety in the same strike type. Because there are no photos. and the photos in the books are all Business Strikes of Far Beads, there are no photos of Far Beads in any other strike type. And to date, all the ones that have been graded appear to be misidentified. Also, the dealers who claimed to have Far Beads in PL all sent me misidentified Near Beads Varieties. So, for me, it appears Far Beads only exist in Business Strikes. Also, a few Canada based Coin dealers have told me the same thing. I even have about ten dealers looking for these and nobody has found any. A person even wrote about this variety and said it was a wild goose chase. I just want some photgraphic proof this variety exists in another strike type other than Business Strike because right now it seems it does not exist should show us some photos.