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An Unknown Constantine Follis ? . . . Rats! I Didn't Win It!

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Paul Bulgerin's Avatar
United States
3098 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2017  11:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin was in a six coin auction lot on ebay tonight.

I have never seen this reverse type and could not find any reference to it in RIC or elsewhere.

I put in a bid of $455 but someone sniped me at the last second so it's got to be something special.

Any ideas? Is this an unknown type for Constantine I? It looks to be from the Arles mint and from the obverse legend is an early issue, perhaps around 313 AD.

An-Unknown-Constantine-Follis-?-.-.-.-Rats!--I-Didn't-Win-It!
Paul Bulgerin
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dwayne8625's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  02:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dwayne8625 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't seen either, it definitely looks like one after Maxentius defeat. Is it victory an Constantine on the reverse?
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lrbguy's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Paul,

I am with you on your association of the early obverse inscription (IMP C CON....) and the mint at Arelate, so I would read the mm as "SARL". The B5 bust type saw plenty of use at Arelate.

I have not turned up this reverse in my references so far.

For the reverse type beginning with the word VICTORIA Brunn lists the following description in RIC VII for VICTORIA AVGVSTORVM: "Emperor stg. l in military dress, holding transverse spear, globe in r. hand; behind, Victory holding branch, crowning emperor" That is very far from this scene as I see it, but is the closest description for such an inscription he gives in RIC VII.

If I am interpreting the imagery correctly, neither in RIC VII nor in his earlier work on Constantinian coins of Arelate does Brunn describe this scene. For the inscription I can make out only "VICTORIA" but none of the reverse legends that start that way are paired with this scene which I would describe as Emperor stg. l. holding spear in l. hand and extending his right hand low to receive branch from Victory adv. r. holding branch and (her left hand is raised but empty?). The space between them is confusing. I think it could be a captive at feet of Victory facing emperor and kneeling on left knee with right foot forward holding some offering toward the emperor. But I cannot be sure it is not merely a confused arrangement of her skirt, knee, and feet.

Before we jump on the "new discovery" bandwagon it would be good to get some better sense of what the reverse type is, its actual inscription, and how it may have been associated with Constantine at this time (circa 313). Interesting problem.
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  2:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have not been able to find a reference to this reverse either. Haven't gone through Not In RIC it might be in there. http://www.notinric.lechstepniewski.info/
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lrbguy's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  3:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Haven't gone through Not In RIC it might be in there.



Just did, and it is not there. It won't be in RIC VI since the mint at Arelate was not yet established before 313. This coin, if authentic, would be one of the earliest coins from the mint at Arelate.
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tenbobbit's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tenbobbit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had a funny feeling where this one had ended up and I wasn't wrong.
Victor ( lateromanbronzecoinforum ) was the buyer and has posted it already with details and some research.
Very interesting coin.
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Paul Bulgerin's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  6:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If Victor won it then it is good hands. I went through his book trying to find out if he had it listed.

I guess the next edition will contain this one.

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lrbguy's Avatar
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949 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2017  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, he correlates its reverse with that of the FELICITAS PERPETVA SAECVLI solidus for Constantine at Arelate, but notes parallels to some late bronze coins for Maxentius from Ostia. His suggestion that it may have been the same engraver who was transitioned to Arelate when Ostia was closed. A plausible speculation, but a shot in the dark.

All agree that if genuine it is one of the early pieces from Arelate.
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lrbguy's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I went through his book trying to find out if he had it listed.



Hmmmm. Help me out here guys.
Is this "Victor" the same guy as Vic"Tory" Failmetzger?
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Victor's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Check Victor's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Victor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Is this "Victor" the same guy as Vic"Tory" Failmetzger?"


No, they are two different people
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lrbguy's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another Victor - But you say this one has a book? What sort of book is it, paper or electronic? Presumably Late Roman Bronze? A catalog of sorts, perhaps supplementary to RIC?

Can anyone provide a link?
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Paul Bulgerin's Avatar
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 Posted 01/24/2017  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That was my goof. When I heard Victor I thought Victor Failmezger and his book, "Roman Bronze Coins".

Marc Breitsprecher, from Ancient Imports, let me know in a private email that I had the wrong Victor.
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echizento's Avatar
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23731 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2017  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
He was a member here a few years ago, but hasn't been around for sometime.
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