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The Fate/Future Of ICCS

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thedollarman's Avatar
Canada
4911 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2017  10:24 pm Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
i'd love to hear what y'all think of ICCS currently, where they'll be in X amount of years and why etc. basically just your thoughts on them and what will happen to them and stuff... to me personally, I am split, I think they've basically owned the market and that it would be hard for them to become second tier, un-trusted etc, but on the other hard how much of this can our tiny numismatic market in Canada take? with the net grading, gradeflation, certification of well done fakes, un-noted cleaned coins in straight grade holders and so on..

this should make for a good thread, speak your mind folks
Feel free to call me Will.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2017  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hopefully it will be sold,and a new up to date approach to the business
Valued Member
Canada
430 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinsplus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gone in about 10 years.. If they don't adapt to technology and change.
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Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like others have said, they need to adapt to technology real soon. But as for the service itself, I think it'll still be around, and strong. Where else can Canadians grade a coin for so cheap? And with ICCS being there from the start, I don't think they'll be going anywhere.
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Canada
9863 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are second tier already for all the reasons you mention dollarman.
But.
The cost is low, a mere fraction of the price of the US TPG's.
99.9% of them sell at no discount to their PCGS and NGC equivalents despite the difference in the cost of slabbing.
Wherever Canadian coins are sold to Canadian collectors, be it at B&M stores, coin shows, or online, they sell well.
As long as these positive factors exist they will survive and thrive.
But.
ALL things must pass.
Someday likely within your lifetime they will be gone, can't predict the reasons now, don't have a crystal ball.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Redzapsid's Avatar
Canada
1571 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  02:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Redzapsid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They could slowly fade away... Along with the hobby
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Apitrix's Avatar
Canada
581 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  03:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Apitrix to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I personally do not see ICCS lasting, due to the fact that it is for sale now, and what is for sale would be out of date equipment and the name of ICCS. I believe there is strong potential for a company to grow and develop into a Canadian-ized PCGS. Within the next 10 years, ICCS holders will start to fade, and become an anomaly within the next 25 years.
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joeysanders627's Avatar
United States
408 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  04:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joeysanders627 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It depends upon who purchases the name next. When you take over an established business, you don't have to spend a lot on marketing initially to build up the name. If the next individual or group comes in and builds a better website and takes other steps to modernize it, I don't see why this can't be a thriving TPG for years to come.

They do have a decent name in the industry compared to other TPGs. They are in the top four at least. Also, given the recent spat between NGC and PCGS, ICCS is in prime position to take advantage of that situation. The question is will the next owner or ownership group be smart enough to do just that.
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Everest's Avatar
Taiwan
606 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  05:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Everest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO with Brians background they could have embraced technology a long time ago. It is a small
family run business by choice.They offer an economical service and that is pretty much where
it ends. I think it was a brilliant business plan.
If you want to compete with PCGS/NGC you will have to offer similar services. How many collectors
of Canadian coins are willing to pay $30 plus per coin to have their coins certified? Those that are
have most likely done so.
Edited by Everest
02/04/2017 05:18 am
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Canada
5585 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  05:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ICCS started small, with few employees and a distinct tie to Charlton. They did the best that they could with what they had to work with. Their problem, exacerbated as of late, has been not enough graders. It REALLY depended upon the single set of eyes that had to decide what was in his hand. Too many mistakes were made and coin sites were able to spread the horror stories of the latest grading guffaw. I hope that it is sold to someone who can hire some well-polished graders, build a tracking system, and publically announce just exactly WHAT their grading standards will be .. will it be straight "technical", will surface condition come into play, will they actually use the "remarks" section, will they grade the same for an individual as they do for a large dealer, and whether they will actually body-bag things that shouldn't be certified. Only time will tell.
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TheForce's Avatar
United States
4867 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  07:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think coin grading services are all over priced. I don't even own a slabbed coin. If you are going to sell a top notch coin it might be worth getting certified. If your doing it for your personal collection then its a very expensive collection.
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papeldog's Avatar
Canada
1923 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the grading companies make mistakes even PCGS or NCG.
ICCS is way behind other leading grading companies in a lot of ways like mentioned in other comments in this post but they are Canadian and I prefer to support Canadian companies before US companies.
If they do sell then hopefully they (the new owners) will adapt to a tracking and number system, hard slab coin holders and a registry system, but I'm sure that the prices will rise when the new ownership takes over if this is what the collector wants a totally new system the price to grade a coin cant stay at the $ they command now for grading a coin it will go up and we will still have to buy the coin not the certification
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Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  10:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Devils advocate here <don't shoot me> but ICCS with not even a website for at least the last 10 years has negatively impacted the interest in the hobby in Canada. Just try googling ICCS to find out what the initials represent.

Yes Canada is a small country in terms of population and only a small fraction of us have any interest in old coins. Imagine if someone's interest is sparked how tough it must be to become familiar with what is what...a hobby where one pays for grading certification, but the grading certification cannot be trusted, and that's more or less an acceptable means of the naive paying more for a coin than it's worth, okayyyy? Also remember that the younger generation totally rely on the internet for information but have also grown up in an era where it's cautioned that anonymous message board comments are not always to be believed.

For those reasons and a few more, putting on my outside looking in glasses, yes I can see why the present situation of coin certification gets a shrug and on they go. For those of us who live nowhere near Toronto so we cannot check it out, ICCS also gives the appearance of the last of old school ways of how things used to be done, or perhaps I might say what appears to be the ol' boys club. For that reason I personally have had a huge concern that grading is fair all across the board. While PCGS might cost more, it also comes with a guarantee. If another $20 extra makes a difference to slabbing a coin, then it probably wasn't worth certifying.

In the 21st century it cannot be expected that information be shared word of mouth. Without a website presence ICCS essentially does not exist and cannot be trusted.

In the future, without a registry, I predict what's written on ICCS flips will become meaningless except for perhaps a small group of nostalga collectors.

My comments are not ntended to insult anyone whatsoever. My intent is to offer an alternate point of view.
Edited by wildflowerAB
02/04/2017 10:52 am
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Alex A's Avatar
710 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alex A to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt it will make a difference either way. Reason being the hobby is slowly fading due to lack of new collectors. The new generation is simply not interested in collecting (or "disengaged" as my friend says).

Just my Two Cents...
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SHAFTA9a's Avatar
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could never understand how they ever had a business without their company being on the internet, and the cost to grade coins is way too much anyway.
Edited by SHAFTA9a
02/04/2017 11:45 am
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2017  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting question...........

Regarding the sale of ICCS.

As a collector and more importantly as a businessman, I wouldn't pay a cent for ICCS, not because I think it's a bad company, quite the contrary. But the value of ICCS isn't the company, it's the person behind the company - Brian Cornwell. Once he leaves (or retires), the ICCS name and business will suffer.

ICCS has many good qualities and they also have bad ones too.

So, without getting into a long discussion of will ICCS still be around in the future, let me say, as long as Brian Cornwell is there, I will be there as a client.
Edited by doubleeagle59
02/04/2017 1:24 pm
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