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 Replies: 18 / Views: 4,369 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
MCM has got to have pretty heavy volume on sales and by following their prices, you can get a pretty good finder on supply and demand in the semi numismatic bullion market. That said, I find it interesting they want the exact same price for a 2016 and 2017 30 gram silver panda.
I wonder IF the 2016 panda in were a stinker in terms of trying to sell, as they still have stock, many dealers still do in fact. The other issue is, correct me if I am wrong but it seems the 2017 silver 30 gram pandas have even more of mintage this year, so I would think prices should go lower here.
Going to be interesting, wonder if the Pandas are finally starting to lose their luster.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
The amount of fake Silver and Gold rounds and bars that are everywhere on the market must have a detrimental effect on buyer confidence.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with the genuine panda's themselves as a bullion round But I do think that buyers are shying off these because the sheer amount of dodgy rounds being introduced into the market is making them nervous about buying them.
I could be wrong But that's the way I see it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5833 Posts |
I don't think the annual pandas mintage is anywhere near the silver eagles, it has been increasing for the past few years. The rarity is no longer there for those years, so I think in times the premium for these should go down in the future issues?
As for the fake, it will never end, at least for a while until it hurt the Chinese government wallet, but again, I am sure they have device the method of checking their supplies in homeland. Chinese PM buyer preferred gold over silver, unless again it has limited mintage, and the collectors wanted for their own collections.
Edited by macmercury
02/25/2017 4:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3789 Posts |
I do agree that the pandas do still reign supreme over the huge mintages found in maples and eagles but I cant help think, looking at prices over time, the series isn't as strong as it was.
It almost seems like the Pandas are suffering perhaps from fatigue and buyers are looking for semi-numis bullion coins with even less mintage than the Pandas, thats my opinion at least. I havent really been able, due to time, to really dig in and chart out prices over time.
The fakes might be crippling Pandas, tho I understand now the Chinese love to fake EVERYTHING now, including junk silver.
Dont get me wrong, Pandas still at 8 mil are less than eagles and maples but I wonder if this long running series is just seeing fatigue and the returns arent going to be as high... time will tell.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4211 Posts |
I only have recent (2010 - present) Pandas in my collection.
The cloud of "is this real" weighs heavily on collectors.
The major bullion dealers can sell them, but what about us collectors when the time comes.
Most are afraid to buy other than from the big guys. Including myself.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
The major bullion dealers can sell them, but what about us collectors when the time comes.
Most are afraid to buy other than from the big guys. Including myself. This is probably the biggest problem that the fake coins/bars are causing collectors/stackers. Even when you buy from a reputable seller and you are absolutely certain that what you have bought is genuine it makes it very difficult to sell because everyone prefers to buy from a recognised source and Not from individuals. Unless you get ALL of your bullion certified (More Costs)the abundance of fakes on the market has eroded the confidence of buyers and you will find it rather difficult to sell the raw product that you have bought. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5833 Posts |
Even the slab one's are questionable to some people!
The only thing I can say is to arm yourself with much knowledge as one can, and a XRF device maybe more common to have toward the future.
Edited by macmercury
02/26/2017 4:03 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4211 Posts |
I collect (among other things) raw 1 oz. silver world bullion coins.
Many countries, years and many different price points.
I am SERIOUSLY considering purchasing a Sigma precious metal verifier just for my own use.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
I have to say, I agree with the comments above. slabbed bullion, as silly as it sounds, (I personally think slabbing should be done selectively) does help when going to sell BUT as Mac mentions, with the rise of FAKE SLABS... that also is something to be cautious about. Finally, when/if we go to sell, you have to think, like Debs point, individual buyers may be very cautious about buying from another individual, due to all these fakes. With Pandas, fakes are a big issue, tho they are not the only bullion series that has been hit with fakes. I have heard some folks, individuals who engage in some selling/buying has stated that many times, due to the fake pandas, it really has an impact on prices on ebay, to the down side. So maybe its all these points that are hanging as a cloud over Panda prices, which again, it strikes me odd that there is no real price difference, using MCM as a bench mark, on the 2016 and 2017 30 gram silver pandas. |
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
I'm not surprised the prices are the same, they get allot for these, and mintages are significantly higher than in the past. I will only buy one of each year and certified. They want 22-25 raw, you can get one slabbed for 34/35. Silver Panda's gave great returns to collectors over the years, that finally panned out over the last few years, the gold panda's really took off when China changed it's laws on owning gold. Many of the old low mintage silver panda's have varieties because of the two mints churning them out and expensive to collect, except for the 84-86 acquiring one of each is about $3000 or so, average you about $100 an oz. The mint does a good job and with the move to grams, I wonder if that will make designs better going forward or not.
As far as worrying about fake slabs, I don't. Although the Chinese do a good job with the design of these, the imperfections are many and unless your buying the rare perfect examples of these you can always compare your photo to the photo you see on the website who certifies these. I think sellers have learned they need good photo's of these or people shy away from them.
I bought some individual 2016 Pandas to give as gifts and remember the obverse all having scratches all in the same spot.
Fakes are really only a problem with these for the novice panda buyer.
Edited by everything
03/01/2017 11:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5833 Posts |
I would also recommend picking up a copy of the 5th edition of the gold and silver Pandas buyer's guide. There's pictures and information that give solid advice to buyers and sellers.
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Valued Member
South Africa
331 Posts |
I don't buy Pandas they ate extremely expensive here raw they go for $40 I can almost buy 2 ASE for that price, beautiful coin but not THAT beautiful |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
MAn, just still soooo surprised at the glut of pandas from last year still around...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1963 Posts |
I made the mistake of paying $35 for one last year. So regret doing that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
I wonder too if the change to grams really sucked the life out of this series going forward....
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Valued Member
United States
467 Posts |
Pandas will come back. Older certified are down right now, but will come back. China needs to reinvent the series IMO. Luckily I never bought any at the top of the market.
Still sitting on some 1/2oz silver from the 90s and quite a few from 2005 through 2008. At least 30 for each yr 2009 through 2013. I did eventually the sell the gold 2002 1/10 I had(picked for $100, sold for $1500), but missed the top of the market.
I also do recommend picking up the Panda guide. Its great reading.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 4,369 |
Posted 02/25/2017 4:40 pm
