Help With History Of This Prussian Coin.

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Author	Replies: 11 / Views: 2,040
vman New Member United Kingdom 4 Posts	Posted 03/16/2017 04:28 am Hi, I was going through my family's coin collection and one particular coin I need help with. I did some investigation on my own and so far I found out that this coin is from Prussia 1783 I believe. However on the flip side of the coin where you would expect to see 1/12 of thaler there's a different emblem that after lots of digging I found comes from Poland of the same period. How could that happen? Any historians out there that may shed some light on this? Sorry for the quality of the images. Hope you can see enough. Edited by vman 03/16/2017 04:32 am Report this Post to the Staff

rockfish Valued Member Canada 217 Posts	Posted 03/16/2017 08:13 am Is it copper? 12 Einen Thaler should be silver. Report this Post to the Staff
vman New Member United Kingdom 4 Posts	Posted 03/16/2017 08:19 am Yes it is a copper coin. I was only guessing that it's 12 einen thaler as it was the only similar coin I found on Internet. Report this Post to the Staff
vman New Member United Kingdom 4 Posts	Posted 03/16/2017 08:23 am Copper is 24 einen Thaler. I should've done my research better! Report this Post to the Staff
Potsdam Valued Member Germany 303 Posts	Posted 03/16/2017 3:08 pm Nope. 1/24 Thaler is billon actually, although the alloys back then were sometimes pretty bad. The averse clearly looks like 1/24 Thaler or 1/48 Thaler (compare with the one the bottom here: http://oldgermancoins.com/prussia-124-thaler/), but the reverse reminds me of Polish grossus (Groschen/Grosz) coins. There are several possibilites now... 1. It could be a contemporary error of someone mixing up the dies. However, Prussian 1/24 Thalers and 1/48 Thalers were in Poland minted in Königsberg and I cannot think of any reason why they would have had Polish dies over there. 2. It could be some kind of contemporary private production, made as a souvenir. 3. It could as well be a modern counterfeit. The bubbly surface looks to me as if this one was casted. Personally, I think option #2 is the most likely one... Edit: I'll check my catalogue later. If I'm not wrong, Prussia did actually mint Groschen coins in West Prussia that look like the reverse of yours... They were also made of copper if I remember correctly. Could you please provide size and weight of your coin? Edited by Potsdam 03/16/2017 3:11 pm Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 03/16/2017 3:23 pm I know nothing, but according to the catalog, the Polish 1 grossus (1 grosz) copper coins with that style of "G" (below the wreath) were minted from 1765 till 1768 in Cracow. So the distance between this and the 1/48 Prussian thaler 1780s piece is quite considerable both time- and distance-wise. Report this Post to the Staff
vman New Member United Kingdom 4 Posts	Posted 03/16/2017 4:14 pm I weighed the coin at 2 grams. My scales are bad with no decimal points at all. Diameter of 20mm. I also lean towards the probability that it is a souvenir. I guess I will never find out for sure. Report this Post to the Staff
paralyse Bedrock of the Community United States 12057 Posts	Posted 03/18/2017 10:17 pm This is possibly an agricultural medalet or small medal of the type awarded in country fairs, many of which feature a themed reverse with an obverse that refers to the local figure of authority (duke, archduke, prince, elector, etc.) Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Report this Post to the Staff
giedrius Valued Member Lithuania 386 Posts	Posted 04/02/2017 02:51 am IMHO, this is the Polish token: unknown to me initials ER on obverse (perhaps the Russian Empress Catherine the Great (Ekaterina in Russian), reverse -common Polish copper pre-1768 groat of Krakow mint Edited by giedrius 04/02/2017 06:14 am Report this Post to the Staff
Potsdam Valued Member Germany 303 Posts	Posted 04/02/2017 11:52 am Its FR actually, for Fredericus Rex (therefore Prussia). Edited by Potsdam 04/02/2017 11:53 am Report this Post to the Staff
giedrius Valued Member Lithuania 386 Posts	Posted 04/03/2017 12:38 pm https://www. (168) Not Allowed - Auto-Removed ro/catalog-monede/polonia/stanislaw-august-poniatowski-1764-1795/1-grosz-1783-fantezie-7299 http://www.omnicoin.com/coin/1004067 Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 04/03/2017 1:39 pm Well, looks like it's more common than one might think. The first link says it's a fake/fantasy. Report this Post to the Staff
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