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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,819 |
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Valued Member
United States
118 Posts |
I've been looking to up-grade my 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent and looking at PCGS price guide you'd think a decent problem free G-4 could be had for less than 200.00 or a fine for up to 700.00. Once you start shopping for one though the reality sets in that no one is selling them anywhere near these prices. People are asking thousands for pretty junky looking coins and if they are graded problem free, goodness gracious! Are they just asking too much or is the guide way off?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
The demand for problem-free coins (or at least mostly problem-free coins) will always far exceed the supply when it comes to early copper. 1796 in general is a challenging year, there's not a single variety which is less than an R3, and several R5 or higher. In addition, the year was split between the Liberty Cap and Draped Bust design. A similar situation occurs for 1809 as well in terms of "theoretical" price and availability vs. "actual" price and availability. Keep in mind as well that PCGS price guide values will always be for the most common variety for a given date, unless otherwise stated. To get a more accurate read on the price, you need to determine the variety, and then search for past auction results for that particular variety, keeping in mind that TPG grading is much less strict than EAC grading in all but the lowest grades. (In other words, don't compare price results for a coin PCGS graded VF35 vs. a coin EAC graded VF35.)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
@Paralyse ... Great answer ... spot on target.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Then there is availability. Although the official mintage figures are three times higher for the 96 bust than the 96 cap, if you go to a coin show and look for them you will find about five caps or more for every bust. And Paralyse is right about the rarities. The rarity estimates have come down over the years, but most of the varieties for the 96 bust are scarce or rare. Back when I started collecting them there was only one variety that was rated less than R-4 and probably half of them were R-5 or higher. If you use the maximum populations for each variety and rarity it works out to about a total of 4,800 pieces still in existence in ANY grade. Then of course the variety collectors absorb multiple specimens leaving even fewer available. I have 24 pieces, and that works out to 1/2 of 1% of the entire surviving population.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
Prices for early copper currently don't reflect reality. A lot of the inventory is in the hands of a very small number of dealers, and a lot of choice lower grade material has been sitting in collections for decades. My suggestion would be to, as MikeF posted above, wait for one to come up at auction. You will overpay and regret it if you buy retail.
Edited by EFLargeCents 04/25/2017 2:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
Prices for early copper are high because you have a very dedicated group of collectors who are working on sets by die variety and even die state. (Die state = Tracking the growth of cracks as they spread over the surface of a given variety. General die wear figures into this also.) That means that many coins are taken off the market. Since many of these collectors are not worried about their next meal, these coins are in strong hands. Things get much tougher if you are looking for coins with good color and hard surfaces. If you are really interested in a 1796 large cent in Good-4, you will be in for a shock. Even using EAC grading, which is ultra conservative, you won't get much with a piece in Good-4. A "commercial Fine" won't look like much either. An EAC Fine might look nice, but you will pay at least "commercial VF" money for it. Here is the only 1796 large cent I handled when I was dealer. I think I sold it for $1,900 almost ten years ago, which some people thought was too much. I'd pay that for it now. 
Edited by billjones 04/25/2017 3:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2362 Posts |
I'm sooo.... interested in this thread. I'm always connected to Heritage and have had 1794, 1795, and 1796 large cents on my wantlist. I just bought a 1796 in a slightly lesser grade PCGS VG10 for just over $500. So, did I make a good deal?
Member ANA and EAC "You got to lose to know how to win". Dream On by Aerosmith
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
cipster, depending on the variety, and how nice of a VG10 it is, you saved anywhere from $100 to $1000 off retail price, I'd say you bought it for wholesale price, so you did well.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
I am ALWAYS on the lookout for really nice problem free old copper in G/VG. VERY very hard to find anything, let alone early dates. I am talking about conservative EAC grading, of course.
Edited by jerseyben 04/26/2017 08:42 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
jerseyben, all the choice EAC G/VG sits in collections right now. The nice stuff almost never comes up for sale, just the scudzy stuff, and people ask a fortune for it.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2362 Posts |
Quote: all the choice EAC G/VG sits in collections right now. Just to update my earlier post. EFLargeCents you are right on about these nice coins sitting in EAC owners collections for so many years.. When the coin arrived I was so surprised to receive a pedigree also enclosed. The previous owner was an EAC member and he bought it in 1972. I broke it out of the PCGS holder and returned it to the original flip with the owner's notes. Sooo.cool.
Member ANA and EAC "You got to lose to know how to win". Dream On by Aerosmith
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Your lucky, typically Hertages just discards the old flips, even those with long and important provenances.
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,819 |
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