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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,313 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
I have no experience with these coins, so...my observations are only general:
Color...looks for sure to have been cleaned at some point. It could be an "old" counterfeit that has survived long enough to actually need cleaning! Or, it really is an old coin.
Appearance: observations to support the thesis that this coin is real
1. No sign of casting (typically seen around the rim)
2. Consistent and even lettering
3. Not sure about the date, but the numerals appear consistent and even.
4. Devices seem to have an expected amount of detail.
5. Overall...no obvious crudity that would lead one to believe the coin is a fake.
Without a known real example to compare with, however, my observations are only a very poor starting point in deciding if the coin is authentic.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5318 Posts |
Thanks Hunter! I certainly am no expert at these coins, and I really appreciate your observations. Yes, the color seemed a bit off to me, although photos often skew things. Apparently, a dealer told him this coin and an 8 Reales were forgeries, but I cannot find the red flags here.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
Well, the thing to do would be to weigh this coin and compare to a known authentic coin. The internet has all information, so surely there's a site out there somewhere with the correct weight (mass) and diameter for this coin. A second look at it still leaves me scratching my head some, because the color is just a bit odd for a silver coin...but until someone comes along who actually knows something, all I'm doing is speculating. Also, my monitor here is better, and the coin appears a bit cruder than it did on my other computer, and that always leaves one wondering...
Edited by hunter20ga
04/23/2008 10:47 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Yeah...I find that color odd too, and don't know if it's just the pic (it's a gif file). There is also some crudeness in this 4 Reales that doesn't seem quite right. Then again, I'm no expert here...but on the 4/8 Reales I've seen, the crown doesn't touch the globes like this coin. Edited by KurtS
04/23/2008 11:45 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
Yes, I really must concur that there is something quite wrong with the color and surface texture. From what I can determine, it seems that this may have been a contemporary counterfeit since the silverish patch between the right pillar and the crown on the obverse looks quite similar to a section of a counterfeit 2R I have. It appears that this coin and my 2R may have had a copper core, but a thin layer of silver or even a silver colored paint was added.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
KurtS
Sorry I missed this one, but here goes.
I suspect the coin is counterfeit. The reasons are:
1. It is edged post strike. 1756 is a bit late for post strike edging and while possible in that year it is a factor. The picture in Krause of the 1756 4R was edged pre-strike.
2. The number of letters and numbers that crowd the edge is suspicious, but it actually closely matches the Krause picture.
3. The color while not normally a problem is in this case. The bright silver patch bewteen the pilars looks like it has thickness above the rest of the surface. A Sheffield plate looks like that and a Sheffield Plate is a counterfeit. The tops of some letters are darker than the fields is this toning or is the plate wearing off?
4. The details of the crest are a bit odd, but the originals are too. The line strength on the shield outline varies and is a bit too crude.
5. The dentils on this coin are too rough for my tastes. The edge dentils even on the smaller coins were done better that what I can see.
This series was in fact targeted by the Chinese and I have seen several of the Pillar 4Rs in their inventories. I do not have a match to any photo I have copied, but I would be very suspicious. The cost of an original makes them an obvious target for forgery.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Swamperbob, thanks for dropping by and sharing your experience!  When you mentioned the 8R was edged post-strike, I assumed the same for this coin. I'll pass this good info on to my friend, thanks! Update on weight: the 4 reales came to 13.05 grams. Edited by KurtS
05/06/2008 12:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
KurtS - Based on the weight of just over 13 grams - the comments would parallel those for the 8R.
The edge roughage makes me wonder if they came from the same source?
If they did - they most likely came from China.
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,313 |
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Posted 04/23/2008 3:48 pm
