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Double Yer Money - Punched-Out Chinese Wu Zhu

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Finn235's Avatar
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 Posted 09/28/2017  10:59 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Stumbled on these pics while looking for something on my old photobucket, realized I never posted here. Got these as part of a neat assortment of ancient Chinese coins, because I was already buying Japanese bita sen from the seller.

China, Wu Zhu (honestly no clue when these were made within the 118 BC - 718 AD time frame)
Both reduced by punching out an original coin.

Double-Yer-Money---Punched-Out-Chinese-Wu-Zhu

At first I didn't give them much thought; I assumed that the larger had been punched to have the excess melted and re-cast, and the smaller had been chiseled for the same reason. But, put them together and...

Double-Yer-Money---Punched-Out-Chinese-Wu-Zhu

Perfect fit! I need to weigh them to see if the weight is the same, but I had never really considered the possibility that the two halves of a punched coin could be used to circulate. More than making change, my understanding is that this was done in an official or quasi-official manner to remedy critical coin shortages until the imperial mint could provide more. In the interim, both halves were probably ordered to circulate at full face value. That never has detrimental effects on an economy, right?

I haven't seen Thomas on here in a while, and Mika might not check often, but I would love to know more about these!
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 09/28/2017  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice, I like how it's a perfect fit.
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AnYangMan's Avatar
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 Posted 09/28/2017  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AnYangMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, it has been a while since we have posted anything ;). Both Thomas and I are relatively busy with our studies. From the two of us, Thomas is the real expert on post-Zhou coinage, but since I highly doubt he'll find this topic, I'll give it a try.

What you have here, are is a so called "Xianhuan" (Thread ring) Wu Zhu and a "Zaobian" (Chiselled Rim) Wu Zhu. You already explained what happened. Towards the end of the (eastern)-Han dynasty, some commodities, including Wu Zhu coins, were becoming relatively scarce, due to poor harvest, barbarian invasions, civil war, etc. The emperor spend 4.4 billion zhu to conquer the Western Qiang, and the state's finances were looking worse and worse. He eventually started selling Dukedoms and ministerial positions off (you could become a Duke for merely 10 million, a minister for 5 million Zhu), etc. just to prevent the state from going bankrupt. Several people advised to start minting large, good weight Wu Zhus again, as done in the Western Han, a period of economic stability. Nevertheless, his main adviser advised against, which indirectly could be a contributing factor to the eventual fall of the Han dynasty.

As another solution, old Wu Zhus, from the Western or early Eastern Han (which were of a better weight than the specimens cast at this time), had their middle cut out. Not stamped, seeing as there are actually specimens known that have marks of such cutting, and Thomas even has a specimen that was only half cut! I am sure he won't mind me borrowing his picture:

Double-Yer-Money---Punched-Out-Chinese-Wu-Zhu

Both these pieces, now equalling the weight of the later Wu Zhu coins in circulation at the time of the clipping, were indeed circulated again, each for 5 (wu) zhu. I don't have the latest info on these (a new publication dedicated entirely to the Wu Zhu coinage has been published recently), but it is generally accepted that they start to appear around 147 AD (the original Wu Zhu from which they were clipped were of earlier date of course). After that, Under Dong Zhuo in the Henan province, a rare type of Wu zhu is known, that was cast with a chiselled-rim Wu Zhu as the mother coin. This resulted in coins that looking quite like these chiselled-rim Wu Zhu's, but have a casting sprue. These supposedly make a re-entrance somewhere in the Southern-Liang period. But looking at your coin, it is simply a cut coin, that was not cast like this.

There is some disagreement between scholars. Some state that it was the government itself that actually cut these Wu Zhu's into two (due to the uniformity in the way they were cut (you already mention that they fit almost perfectly!) and the relatively large amount of coins that were treated in such a way), but other maintain that this was done unofficially, by for example merchants that 'bought' high-quality, early Wu Zhu's for slightly more than 5 zhu, then cut these into two, and ended up with 10 zhu. There are fairly little sources about this, and again, I am not a specialist on these. I'd personally go for the option that these were unofficial, but who knows..

Later, after the fall of the Han-dynasty, the Wu Zhu was restored to its proper weight again, and many of the private and illicit casts from the end of the Han were recast into proper Wu Zhus again. And they were still used centuries later; I have personally fished a couple of Wu Zhus from a middle-Tang period hoard!

Congrats on the purchase; they sure tell an interesting story! The rim is generally a bit heavier than the inner coin by the way.

Mika
Edited by AnYangMan
09/28/2017 2:34 pm
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Finn235's Avatar
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 Posted 09/28/2017  2:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love how we have experts in almost every field here! Thanks a bunch Mika!

I did see a new book on Wu Zhu coins, but at nearly $60 I'll have to pass - barely even have $20 in all of my pre-Song coins put together.
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 Posted 09/28/2017  2:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aiglet7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A very interesting topic, 'Finn'. Not an 'expert' on this type of Wu Zhu coin. However, my understanding is they were minted in the Southern Dynasties period during the reign of Emperor Wen (424-453).They were known as Chen Wu Zhu. One Chen Wu Zhu was worth ten of the small centres - known as goose-eye coins. Have read that people cut out the centre of the larger coin so as to get a 'two for one' coin. Not sure if this was officially sanctioned or not!
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 Posted 09/28/2017  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had thought that these coins were the "goose eye" Wu zhu, being complete but cast to a size of only ~10mm. Not the best picture, but you can see the full characters and rim on this one. I was under the impression that these were one of Wang Mang's crazy experimental coins.

Double-Yer-Money---Punched-Out-Chinese-Wu-Zhu
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AnYangMan's Avatar
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 Posted 09/28/2017  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AnYangMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin, Finn! I am ashamed to admit my limited collection of post-Zou coins still lacks such a coin. This is indeed a Goose eye (E Yan, but sometimes also called Chicken) Wu zhu. Dating these is incredibly difficult, but they certainly pre-date Wang Mang, for we have found them in late Western Han tombs, predating the reign of this enigmatic emperor. Although it is doubted these goose eye wu zhus were actually money. As you said, the attribution Aiglet gave is applicable to goose eye Wu zhus (what you have is no goose eye), and is a slightly outdated one I am afraid. A quote from Hua guangpu explains it all:

"Coins, commonly known as "Chicken-Eye Wu Zhu", previously were often attributed to the reign period Tian-jia of the Chen Emperor Wen-di of the Southern Dynasties. Recently this type of coins is believed to be cast during the Western Han Dynasty by the Royal Court as special mortuary money used in the burial tombs of royal family members. Factual findings reveal that these coins practically have not any signs of circulation wear; besides, they are found only inside the burial tombs or in the vicinity of the burial sites, therefore the definition "mortuary money" as regards to this type of coins seems to be correct".

And the reason for that:

"The reason these coins were in the past attributed to the Chen Dynasty or Earlier Sung Dynasty, is that the "goose eye" coins are first mentioned in the standard histories of the Liang Dynasty and the Sui Dynasty. According to the record, in 465 AD the Earlier Sung allowed people to make private coins. Soon the coinage deteriorated to the point that the coins were so small they were called "goose eye" and were said to float on water. It was also said that 100,000 of the coins could be held in two hands. But no further description is given. Such coins were still in circulation a century later in the Chen Dynasty. Collectors in the past thought the really small wu zhu coins must be the "goose eye" coins. From archaeological work in the 20th century we now see that those coins are from the Han Dynasty and from northern China. So they cannot be coins of Sung or Chen. So now we do not know what the real "goose eye" coins looked like. They must have been extremely small and perhaps had no reverse rims - which would allow them to float on water due to surface tension (like the smooth back Vietnam coins)."

The type that we refer to as Goose eye coins, thus differs from the type the sources mention as being called goose eye ( a nick name for all small, floating coins). But in modern numismatics, this type still refers to these mortuary cash from the Han dynasty, not to these southern dynasties types. The type mentioned here however, is not such a cut wu zhu as presented in the original post, but these goose eye were the Xiaojian cash coins. We see many illicit castings of this coin, as well as official castings in much better quality. Their find spot matches with the location of the mentioned kingdoms (Sung and Chen), unlike the cut Wu Zhus, which were found all over China. Xiaojians were first cast in 454, and allowing the people to make private copies of a coin two decades old, makes more sense than allowing them to make private copies of a coin type that was already centuries old, and of which they had already made thousands if not millions of illicit copies.

One fun thing to note about your actual goose eye: a while ago, a hoard of goose eye Wu Zhus was found next to a mould for making Xuandi period Wu Zhus (74-49 BC). They are stylistically comparable to the Shanglin Wu Zhus, issued just slightly earlier. The finds spots are almost exclusively located in and around tombs in Xi' an, where much of the Han-dynasty nobility was buried, but a couple of provincial finds are also known. But they are almost always found near or in tombs dating to the later period of the western Han. Hence the mortuary-cash-theory.

Mika
Edited by AnYangMan
09/28/2017 6:11 pm
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Finn235's Avatar
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 Posted 09/29/2017  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
mortuary money


Oh great, so it's probably cursed/haunted!



Thanks again for the great info! I'll have to get the rest imaged and a thread started for them!
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 09/29/2017  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great thread--thx!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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 Posted 04/21/2018  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, I was MOA. Thanks @AnYangMan for stepping in!
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