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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,705 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Let's assume a coin that has all of the characteristics of an XF coin except that it is so dark to easily see this. Upon further inspection it turns out to even squeak by to an AU. Does this totally darkened surface take lower the grade of a this nickel. If so, how much? Also, using TPG's guidelines would your responses equally apply to all light-colored nickel and silver coins for example? |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Toning does not change technical grade. It does certainly change the eye appeal and value.
Photos would allow us to give better opinions.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
No quick answer here. Darkened nickels have usually suffered from some sort of environmental damage (ED), in which case the sharpness grade has little to do with the coin's valuation, which will usually be severely less than that of an undamaged example. Copper and silver coins have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
Edited by Coinfrog
10/13/2017 5:28 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
For circulated coins, eye appeal is a small component of the final grade, unlike the situation with uncirculated coins where eye appeal is a greater component of the final grade. In general, wear is the primary component of grading for circulated coins making up up to 80% of the grade's weight. Dark toning only becomes a problem where it obscures the view of coin details that are determinative of grade. For example, xf Barber halves need to have fully outlined feathers. If toning makes it impossible to determine if feathers are fully defined, then the grader may default to the lower grade. Within the eye appeal component (small for circ - larger for unc) there is a determination of whether toning is enhancing or detracting of eye appeal. It is subjective, but dark toning is generally detracting from eye appeal. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
10/13/2017 5:27 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
The original thread seemed primarily about nickels, which are in a category by themselves when it comes to darkness. Mdpmedia - please clarity.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3546 Posts |
Would a totally deep black toned Buffalo nickel with all of its XF details discernable give the same grade as the same XF graded nickel having a normal white colored surface? W/r/t other coins I should have specified the same above question but applying it to a 'silver' Bust half, for example. I ran into a completely blackened 1827 Bust half and wanted to put a reasonable reserve on it but was unsure because of its unnatural color etc. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Quote:Would a totally deep black toned Buffalo nickel with all of its XF details discernable give the same grade as the same XF graded nickel having a normal white colored surface? Maybe. It would receive the same technical grade, but TPGs take into account the coin's eye appeal even for circulated coins to determine the final grade. That will depend on the grader as to whether it is severe enough to merit a different grade. Again, the eye appeal component is smaller for circulated coins. A buyer would almost certainly not pay the same price. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
You can give many dark silver coins a quick dip and you have the same coin only now it shins. What is wrong with that? Nothing has been altered except the coin now has twice as much eye appeal. I have VF SLQ that is dark. I would like to break it out of its slab and dip it, but then I have a raw coin or do I?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Some dips remove the top layer of metal that has oxidized on a coin forever altering its original surface. Originality refers to having all the elements the coin had when it left the mint. The value of originality varies among collectors.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
Quote:
I have VF SLQ that is dark. I would like to break it out of its slab and dip it, but then I have a raw coin or do I? Chances are very good that you're not going to like the result. So you risk cracking it out and losing all its value. You're best bet is to sell it here on CCF and get one that's a better fit for your collection. Ps I'd like to see a pic of it.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Yes, let's start with a pic!
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
I'd never dip anything under AU-58. A coin should have strong luster that shows through the toning or there is too much of a risk that you will end up with an un-natural look.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
Because of my disability I have had a hard time posting pics here. It is an ANACS 1927-S graded as a VF35. In EF40 even if was the same color it would cost me big money I think. The authentication number is 4165021.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,705 |
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Posted 10/13/2017 5:26 pm
