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Somali Republic Platinum Coin

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New Member

Sweden
7 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2017  03:24 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mn8o to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi,

Tried to find info regarding this coin (in a watch) I found on ebay. Browsed internet like crazy but couldn't find anything so decided to try here. Hope this is the right section to ask. If not, very sorry about that.

The coin is in a watch that was sold through GoldQuest. It's a platinum coin issued by the Central Bank of Somalia it seems. It's said to be .995 Platinum with a weight of 14 grams. Is this a legit coin? What might the value be? I've attached a picture of the coin. All help welcome. Thank you!
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2017  06:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know what "PALLADIUM PLAT." (Pd Pt) means, but
I am guessing Platinum coin, fused to a Palladium bezel.

Is it possible to show the date, or perhaps the design was machined off the obverse to fit in the watch?

To have some idea of the value, the weight of the precious metals needs to be known.

No numismatic premium for this watch, unfortunately. Value in part depends on the quality of the watch movement.
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bungle's Avatar
Japan
349 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2017  06:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bungle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suppose it is a legit coin as much as the Somalian elephant coins are.
Google for Ka'abah platinum coin.
Someone says it is 1/2 oz.
It is possible that the ebay seller is mistaking troy ounces for avoirdupois ounces, stating that the weight is 14 grams.
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bungle's Avatar
Japan
349 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2017  06:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bungle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sel_69l, the date is 2001, 20 on the left and 01 on the right.
New Member
Sweden
7 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2017  07:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mn8o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The watch info sheet (which is also in the auction) says it's 14 grams. 14 grams is 0.49 ounces so 1/2 oz should be correct.
I know the Somalian elephant coins are "well known" but haven't seen any info regarding this coin.


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commems's Avatar
United States
12267 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2017  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just FYI...

The weight of precious metal coins is generally measured using the troy measurement system vs. the avoirdupois system.

There are 31.104 grams in a troy ounce. 14 grams / 31.104 = 0.45 troy ounces.

So, 14 grams does not equal 1/2 troy ounce and shouldn't be rounded up to it (it would be a rounding of more than 10%!).


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Sweden
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 Posted 10/24/2017  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mn8o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok. Thank you for that information. Very novice when it comes to this
Reason the listing on ebay caught my eyes in the first place was I recognised the watch because I remember my mom had a similar one many years ago. Brought some memories back, hence the "digging".

As I said, very little to be found about this coin. I found another thread on this forum, a long one, discussing the Somalia elephant coins etc. but nothing about this coin with Ka'abah depicted.

Closest I've found is this..
https://www.silverstackers.com/foru...luing.63873/

Sorry if posting this link is not ok
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commems's Avatar
United States
12267 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2017  11:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@mn8o: Happy to help - CCF is all about education!

If you stick around, you'lll be amazed by the knowledge base available here.


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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commems's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 10/24/2017  11:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A couple of interesting notes about the "coin" in the watch...

- It appears to be denominated $500 (i.e., 500 dollars). The currency unit of Somalia in 2001 was the shilling not the dollar; the shilling continues as the unit today.

- Due to civil war, the Central Bank of Somalia was not in operation in 2001 (the date on the coin) - it therefore was in no position to authorize the issue of a platinum coin.

This piece appears to be one of many "coins" issued in the name of Somali by BH Mayer's Mint without any official authorization from Somalia.


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Sweden
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 Posted 10/25/2017  01:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mn8o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you.
So, what does that mean? The coin is fake? It has value due to the platinum content but from a collector's point of view there is no real value?

I mean, this being a bullion coin the face value should not really matter, or?
Edited by mn8o
10/25/2017 02:41 am
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UltraRant's Avatar
Norway
1358 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2017  06:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed with commems, and a few more notes:

- The Somali republic ceased to exist in 1969, when it became Somalia after a coup d'etat. This name can be found on coins from 2001: Somalia.
- all Somalia coinage is in Shillings, with the word written out in full on the coin. No dollar sign is used.
- 2001 saw Somalia coinage, but none of it had a denomination of $500, or just 500.

Conclusion: this is a fantasy piece. It may well be platinum, but you have to test it if you buy it, as it's not backed by a nation or national bank. That's perhaps also why it's not in line with the troy ounces scale, being 14 gram (or about .45 troy ounce).

And for fineness... most mints making bullion rounds manage .999 fineness nowadays...
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Sweden
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 Posted 10/25/2017  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mn8o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, again, for the input/feedback/digging.
I see there are a lot of coins from 2000 and 2001 out there with both "Somali" and "Somalia" engravings, so not sure what is going on. Again, this being a bullion round and not anything with legal tender, I guess it can be ok.
Mayer Mint seems to be very well known so hard to believe this is not legit as far as platinum content goes.

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UltraRant's Avatar
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 Posted 10/25/2017  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I see there are a lot of coins from 2000 and 2001 out there with both "Somali" and "Somalia" engravings, so not sure what is going on


Simply put: there is no Central Bank of the Somali Republic. It's a fantasy bank, it's made up, it doesn't exist. Probably someone at this Mayer Mint thought it sounded nice. Somehow Africa seems to inspire a lot of people to make up countries there. Even Wikipedia maintains a list of those used in popular culture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...an_countries

Mayer Mint is a private institution making bullion rounds and fantasy coins. They have the strangest opinion about what a coin is and when it is most valuable. Here's their site: http://www.mayermint.com/

The only legal tender coming out of Somalia reads 'Republic of Somalia' and is in Shilling. Anything else is suspicious.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16817 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2017  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In 2001, Somalia was an anarchy, with no legitimate internationally recognized government; the few remnants of the government that had been internationally recognized were in exile in Tanzania, I believe. Somalia was therefore a perfect country for mints of less-than-honourable integrity to use as a flag of convenience to make their "coins", since no-one in the country could be easily contacted to verify whether or not the coin actually was legal tender; nor would anyone from that country be likely to lodge a formal counterfeiting complaint against them. There is even the possibility that the "Central bank of Somali Republic" was a front for one of the rebel/Islamist/terrorist groups vying for control in Somalia; given the Islamic theme of the coin, I would not rule this out.

The political situation in Somalia is becoming more stable lately, so the number of coins issued in its name is decreasing.

At the peak of the anarchy, all kinds of weird, gimmicky coins were released in the name of "Somalia" at around this time by numerous private mints around the world. Coins shaped like guitars, cars and motorcycles come to mind. Most are denominated in "dollars", to try to convey to American buyers their coin-ness. None had any formal recognition from anyone who could legitimately be called a part of the Somali government, so all of them are not "real coins". Nor are they technically "fake coins", since a "fake" is a copy of a genuine coin, and there are no genuine coins like this. "Fantasies", "unofficial coins", "coin-like medals" - call them what you wish.

Quote:
I don't know what "PALLADIUM PLAT." (Pd Pt) means, but I am guessing Platinum coin, fused to a Palladium bezel.

Actually, I would guess "palladium plated", as the advertisement states the watchband is made of palladium-plated stainless steel. Assume zero actual precious metal content for the bezel. As for the coin, presumably it was sliced open along the rim had had some of the platinum scooped out to fit the watch mechanism inside it. In any event, the act of turning it into a watch has rendered it uninteresting as a coin from a coin collector's viewpoint. Of course, this particular coin may have had its entire mintage turned into watches (I do not know); if so, then the question of the coin's value as a coin would be moot as the actual coins would not exist in an undamaged state.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Sweden
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 Posted 10/26/2017  05:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mn8o to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok. Thank you.
With the front of the watch/coin looking like below I don't see why the coin should have been sliced open though..




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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16817 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2017  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll admit to not really knowing how such a watch operates, and whether or not the control mechanisms could all fit inside the bezel.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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