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Longacre Doubling On A Trade?

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Beefer518's Avatar
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 Posted 11/06/2017  10:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Beefer518 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Was there 'Longacre Doubling' on denominations other than cents? I'm familiar with it on FE's and IHP's, but I have an 1875-S Trade dollar that appears to have it as well. The date of 1875 falls into Longacre's time, so I figure it's possible. It's not Mint Doubling, and it's not a DDO / DDR, so that leaves Longacre as my guess.

It is incredibly minimal, and I spent over 40 minutes trying to photograph it, but I can only see it under the loupe. (This would probably be the first time a digital scope would be handy, but it's so not worth it.)
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Michael Lueders's Avatar
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 Posted 11/06/2017  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Michael Lueders to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Error ref website states "While Longacre's doubling is most associated with the Indian Head cent. It is also found on the Seated Liberty denominations and other coins of that era." So on that basis, I expect that fits the bill for you sir!
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Michael Lueders's Avatar
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 Posted 11/06/2017  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Michael Lueders to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From the Numissociety site it goes into more detail "The first design that Longacre provided was the Flying Eagle cent of 1856 to 1858. Although the design was very short lived, today it is extremely popular with collectors (this design is important, as we will see later). Among other designs that Longacre produced for circulating coinage were the Liberty Head used on the gold $1 (1849 to1854) and $20 Liberty Head (1849 to 1907), the Indian Princess gold $1 and $3 of 1854 to 1889, the shield design on the Two Cent Piece (1864 to 1873); the Shield nickel (1866-1883); the silver Three Cent piece (1851-1873); the nickel Three Cent piece (1865-1889) and, perhaps most importantly, the Indian Head cent ((1859 to 1909). " Hope this helps
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Beefer518's Avatar
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 Posted 11/06/2017  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Beefer518 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@paralyse, I thought Longacre doubling was something Longacre did (or had done) to (in his belief) aid the metal flow during the striking. I see it on many of my FE's, and I can tell the difference between the Longacre vs MD on them.

What I'm saying is that I thought it was an intentional die element, to improve striking, and not caused by striking.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2017  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Longacre doubling is NOT Strike Doubling, the doubled image is actually part of the die.


Quote:
From the Numissociety site it goes into more detail "The first design that Longacre provided was the Flying Eagle cent of 1856 to 1858.

This is incorrect, the first Longacre designs were the 1849 gold dollar and double eagle. The gold dollars do come with Longacre doubling.

I don't believe it was intended to improve metal flow, it was intended to be a visual aid to determine when design elements had been driven deep enough into the die. When the outlines began appearing around the devices and lettering it was sunk deep enough. The traces of the outlines should have been polished off the dies during their preparation. Once they disappear the depth of the features into the die would be perfect. Due to rushed work in the die shop the outlines were not always polished away. That is why they appear on some dies, and in various stages of removal and not at all on others. One thing you have to remember is that Longacre was not a die sinker, he was a flat plate engraver and that he got his posting not by merit but by political influence.

Longacre doubling can be found on every coin that Longacre designed, and on every design that was modified during his tenure. It isn't seen on coins before his tenure, on coins from during his tenure before they were modified, or on designs modified after his death (both of his design or on designs modified during his tenure)
Edited by Conder101
11/07/2017 3:02 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2017  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very informative, Conder101. This is something I have learned today.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2017  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Same here, for sure!
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2017  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I stand in awe of Conder's knowledge, as usual.
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