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 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,854 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts |
As a grading adjunct, I have zero use for CAC. Rather use my own judgement or taste, as the case may be. See this Morgan example. For CAC to tell me it's a legit 64 with that machine mark right on the most prominent part of the face, is a stretch IMO. It irks me that CAC coins do indeed go for 10-20% more, in many cases. This 1892-CC is one I've been searching for for quite some time and now I have to deal with additional premiums on top of a rising demand for this date.   |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2843 Posts |
Not that it really matters, but I would think that is the reeding of another coin pressed on the cheek.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Yes, it's a bag mark that it no way precludes a 64 grade. This coin looks well struck with excellent luster.
As for CAC everyone has their opinion but this piece being a 64 looks correct.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
I'm curious what you meant "as a grading adjunct"? Do you teach grading seminars or work for a larger firm?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11892 Posts |
I think he was referring to CAC as a grading adjunct, not himself. At least that is how I read it. For me, this coin looks like a 63+. The mark on the cheek looks like a bagmark, but that combined with the other extensive chatter on the face put it at 63. The booming luster gives it a + upgrade, but imho this coin is limited by the many disturbances in the focal point of the coin. I would say 63 CAC as the useless numismatic student grading adjunct.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
11/07/2017 2:57 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
The cheek is an important focal point for Morgan's. The edge railroad track appears to have been justly considered.
I would also agree with 64, but not a strong 64.
CAC is usually indicative of a better half opinion.
Some love PCGS or NGC or ANACS or CAC. I don't disagree with anyone's personal opinion.
But every time I see a Coin that I absolutely fall in love with (keeping in mind that Heritage, Great Collections, and Stacks - in that order) are my primary sources, it has a CAC.
I didn't consider the CAC at all. It just happened to be on a Coin I had to own, even I did have to bid high.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
Haha thanks for the clarification NS. I obviously misread that.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11892 Posts |
I agree with Ron that the presence of many overgraded coins puts upward pricing pressure on coins that are correctly or under graded. But that only becomes a problem until you buy one. Once you own one that is a correctly graded or under graded, then this disadvantage turns around and becomes an advantage. Now you are riding the price appreciation wave and it matters little whether the reasons are valid or not. I think everyone shares your frustration in buying nice coins in a rising price environment. Good luck. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
11/07/2017 12:46 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
If I were a seller I would be very happy to offer CAC approved coins for sale as they do command a premium. As a buyer I would prefer to just pick a solid coin for the grade out of a crowd and hopefully not have to pay a premium.
As for the subject coin, I do not see a superior MS64. In fact my personal opinion if asked the grade would be MS63 because of that railroad track right in the middle of the primary focal point.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3058 Posts |
Quote:
...but this piece being a 64 looks correct.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
655 Posts |
Thanks for the opinions. Yes the unnecessary adjunct I referred to was CAC. I.e., the coin is already graded by a 3rd party. I thought the crimping marks were from a machine but it makes more sense that they're from the edge of another coin.
The main point I'm making is that CAC standards don't really seem to be that high, using this Morgan as a 'for instance'. At best, I find them the same as the TPGs.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I think CAC does a better job than the others, but they're far from perfect.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11892 Posts |
CAC's role is not to designate grade but to parse through what is better or lesser for the grade. It is useful imho to have an informed, not perfect opinion in this regard. I think it has benefitted holders of premium for the grade or undergraded TPG coins. It has been commercially succesful, but no one is perfect and we can't hold anyone to that standard. Net net, coin owners make money because CAC exists and as a coin owner I can't knock that. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
The main point I'm making is that CAC standards don't really seem to be that high, using this Morgan as a 'for instance'. At best, I find them the same as the TPGs. Remember CAC approval does not mean premium quality or high end for the grade. The CAC green sticker means problem-free and at least solid for the grade (i.e. not low end or with problems). We can't see the reverse of this coin but I assume it is very strong and likely gem quality. |
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Moderator
 United States
188660 Posts |
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,854 |
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Posted 11/07/2017 11:00 am
