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Ancient Seals From Babylon

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Angielczyk's Avatar
Israel
423 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2017  3:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Angielczyk to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello

A friend of my wife has just sent her this message and I was wondering id anybody here knows anything about these seals.


In 1980 my younger brother who was at that time a student in the 2nd class of the intermediate school, went with his class mates on a school trip to Babylon city. While he was wandering between the ruins of ancient Babylon he came across these two seals which I think belong to Jewish priests or notables from the era of the Jewish exile 2,600 years ago. The small one is made of carved stone, the bigger one, on which you can see the lion of Judah or Babylon carved on it, is made of red clay. On the rear of both seals, as you can observe, appear the Jewish menorah and some Hebrew initials which I think refer to the name or position of the owners of the seals at that time.



Ancient-Seals-From-Babylon
Ancient-Seals-From-Babylon

Thanks
Harold

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BigSilver's Avatar
United States
2843 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2017  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fascinating.
I am having a hard time matching those letters to the ancient hebrew script. I am so curious what they say.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2017  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...from the era of the Jewish exile 2,600 years ago.


The Magen David - the Star of David - was derived from the medieval Arab Seal of Solomon motif, and did not become a widespread symbol of Judaism until the 19th century. To my knowledge there is not one single authentic ancient Judaean artifact or coin which displays a Magen David. Menorahs, yes. Palm branches, yes. Jewish Stars, no.

On the contrary, the presence of the motif on a supposedly ancient Judaean artifact is typically seen as evidence of a tourist trinket produced by overreaching forgers/fakers.
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alganbagerap's Avatar
United Kingdom
2490 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2017  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add alganbagerap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This Bob sadly has to agree with Bob L. The top image has a menorah, fine. But the angelic depiction on the left hand tile is very much a European idea, and from many centuries after.
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Angielczyk's Avatar
Israel
423 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2017  05:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Angielczyk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
[quote]To my knowledge there is not one single authentic ancient Judaean artifact or coin which displays a Magen David. Menorahs, yes. Palm branches, yes. Jewish Stars, no./quote]

Thank you for your input. However I would like to point out that the Star of David has been a Jewish symbol for centuries. It is true that it was adopted by the Zionist movement in the 19th century and then became more wildly used.

Here is an interesting article that I found on the web which illustrates that the symbol that we call the star of David was used by many people, not just Jews in ancient times.
http://star-of-david.blogspot.co.il...logical.html

Nevertheless I accept that they may just be some tourist token although they were
found by an Iraqi schoolboy in the ruins of ancient Babylon
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2017  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I moved this here so that others can comment on it. I don't know enough about Jewish history to comment on the Star of David. Both seals look old, but that can be easily faked. Tourist area's have been known to be seeded with fake artifacts, which adds to the thrill when some tourist stumbles upon them.

That being said IMO the first one may be genuine The insect reminds me of a Locust.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16845 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2017  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As the article linked to by Angielczyk states, the earliest recorded use of the Star of David as an unambiguous peculiarly Jewish symbol is in Europe, circa AD 500. If it was used earlier as a religious symbol, there is no record or mention of it that has survived. It is recorded in earlier Jewish contexts, but it always seems to occur as a decorative pattern rather than as a symbol (eg. the repeating pattern of hexagrams, pentagrams and swastikas in the Capernaum synagogue). It does not appear to have been a "Jewish symbol" during the time of the Exile.

Finally, the ruins of Babylon have been worked, reworked, shoddily rebuilt by Saddam Hussein, blown up by ISIS and otherwise quite thoroughly picked over by archaeologists and looters for the past several hundred years. This would have been true in 1980 as well, except for the ISIS part. I'm pretty sure there are not going to be any genuine artifacts of any kind just lying around for people to pick up, let alone artifacts of such cultural and historical significance as physical evidence of the Exile. I could be wrong, but I believe the only evidence of the Exile found in Babylon itself have been a few clay tablets mentioning Jewish families.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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