1863 Two Cent "in God We Trust" For Grading

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Author	Replies: 9 / Views: 1,128
ShoeboxCoins New Member United States 2 Posts	Posted 01/02/2018 8:57 pm Greetings, Over the weekend I opened up an old shoe box from my childhood and noticed an interesting coin. It is not in good condition, but it looks like a J-316 to me. Can I get a second opinion? What is this worth given the condition and rarity? Thanks for the assistance! * Edited by Staff to crop images. Please crop images before uploading. If you do not have software to do this you can use the free image optimizer. * Report this Post to the Staff

moxking Rest in Peace United States 17900 Posts	Posted 01/02/2018 9:49 pm Most patterns usually sell best once they have been graded and certified by NGC or PCGS. Your example looks cleaned, but still has value. Report this Post to the Staff
Crazyb0 Rest in Peace 10197 Posts	Posted 01/02/2018 10:22 pm I opened this post hoping to see an 1863 2-cent piece...being that 1864 was the first year of mintage....is it real? I haven't heard of any, since the Coinage Act of April 1864 changed the composition of the small cent and authorized a new 2-cent coin to be made Yours is a ? Edited by Crazyb0 01/02/2018 10:24 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Cleatis87 Valued Member United States 125 Posts	Posted 01/02/2018 10:28 pm I agree that it would need third party validation of authenticity to be able to market with any real value. Report this Post to the Staff
paralyse Bedrock of the Community United States 12057 Posts	Posted 01/02/2018 10:39 pm First: welcome to CCF Based on the images, this is likely a crude counterfeit/fantasy or even a badly damaged and altered 1868 issue. I suspect if you measure your questionable coin you might find it to be both overweight and too large in diameter; that would be a good place to start. A similar coin popped up on another site about 3 months ago, which was 1.5" diameter and 26.4g vs 0.90" diameter and 6.2g for a genuine Two Cent Piece. Things I noted: 1. The 1863 J-316 pattern (of which 12 are known, all Proofs) was of a unique motto variety somewhere closer to the large motto than the small motto in size, but with the spacing of the small motto type. Your coin does not match - the tops and bottoms of the letters are much too close to the ribbon. 2. The surfaces are mushy, have a porous/cast/bubbly appearance, and pitting. 3. The style of the devices, and the date in particular, are extremely crude compared with the pattern. The date is way too large, too mushy, and way too close to the rim. 4. The numeral 3 in the date is completely wrong vs. the pattern issue. 5. The obverse lacks denticles entirely 6. The D in UNITED is missing its top serif -- this is correct for J-316, which was struck in the late 1860s-early 1870 using a modified 1864 L/M obverse hub and an unknown 1865 or later reverse hub. However, since the missing serif occurs on many 1865 issues and all issues dated after 1865, this is not diagnostic. If the weight and diameter check out OK, your next stop would be to have PCGS, NGC or ANACS review the coin, verify authenticity, and put it into a plastic "slab" holder. A local coin shop or dealer would be able to advise you on how to submit your coin to one of those services. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11896 Posts	Posted 01/02/2018 11:38 pm rooting for you IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 188770 Posts	Posted 01/03/2018 11:25 am to the Community! Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
Coinfrog Bedrock of the Community United States 94367 Posts	Posted 01/03/2018 11:36 am Great find. to the CCF! Report this Post to the Staff
SilverDollar2017 Pillar of the Community United States 8715 Posts	Posted 01/03/2018 1:06 pm Make sure to check weight and diameter first. If those are both correct, the submit the coin to PCGS, NGC, or ANACS for authentication and grading. Only once the coin is in a holder of PCGS, NGC, or ANACS will it have any market value. Report this Post to the Staff
ShoeboxCoins New Member United States 2 Posts	Posted 01/03/2018 3:08 pm Many thanks for the immediate feedback - I hadn't considered the possibility of the coin being a counterfeit version. Sure enough, it measured about 1.5". Oh well. I appreciate the assistance! Report this Post to the Staff
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1863 Two Cent "In God We Trust" For Grading