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 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,591 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1023 Posts |
Not that I am very old myself at almost 35 but I notice that on Instagram there are tons of young collectors. Mostly in their teens. They are advertising their work as their business. This is great in terms of new collectors who are enthused about the hobby. And it helps keep our collections valuable when another generation is there to take over.
Now... So many of these kids are showing photos of their grading reports from PCGS and saying how annoyed they are they didn't get grades they want and how PCGS is so bad and they won't send in anymore coins. Now I admit I haven't seen all these submissions but I have a strong feeling these people are buying lower quality coins that don't meet the grading standards. I like that of all the millions of coins being sent in that not everyone can be satisfied. Where would we be if everything submitted was a gold mine? In your opinion are the grading companies really slacking off or are people just know-it-alls? This is such an open ended question so answer or discuss however you think it relates. No, I cannot provide proof that collectors are wrong, but would like your opinions. Thanks
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Come up with a more reliable system than NGC or PCGS and ill gladly submit my coins there. 99% of the time if you disagree with those two TPG for the grade, especially if judged by photos - your wrong. Learning to grade is an essential part of coin collecting, which is true for every collectible genre. Someone that is learning should do just that. |
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Pillar of the Community
7234 Posts |
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So many of these kids are showing photos of their grading reports from PCGS and saying how annoyed they are they didn't get grades they want and how PCGS is so bad and they won't send in anymore coins. Sounds like..........  |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
The overwhelming majority of criticism that PCGS and NGC receive is because people think they're better graders than they really are, or they think they can definitively grade from photos, or they're mad that it didn't grade higher.
Mox is absolutely right, almost always the problem is with the person supplying the criticism not PCGS/NGC.
As far as the instagram complaints most are likely from dealers up-selling them on coins or over charging them and then being disappointed in the results. Almost all of them will submit again and are just saying things out of frustrating like we all do sometimes. There is a bit of a learning curve with submitting for how things will grade especially with newer collectors, but once someone gets some experience with it there aren't many true surprises
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
A lot of new collectors don't have the necessary skills and knowledge to safely buy raw coins. As a result, they are easily lured by ebay ads for "MS++++++ BU GEM RARE ULTRA DMPL" coins that are tantalizingly priced; they are then disappointed when the coin comes back in a details holder, in a body bag, or at a much lower grade than they expected. This also applies to certain dealers who push overgraded, problem coins on newbie collectors at inflated prices and then, when they get called out, are quick to transfer the blame to the "evil" TPG's. There is also a certain element at play here which delights in convincing the gullible that investing in MS68 and higher graded coins minted within the last 10-15 years is a surefire bet for a rock-solid retirement; they obfuscate to hide the fact that even though the PCGS "book" might value a coin at $2000 because it's pop 3/0, when there were 1.3 billion examples of whatever coin that might be that were minted, it's a matter of time before their 3/0 becomes 30/0 or even worse 300/30 as even better coins show up, evaporating an already almost nonexistent market of buyers. This sort of manipulative marketing has helped convince many uninformed collectors that Population Reports are the SOLE predictor of a coin's market value. While it is indisputable that PCGS and NGC are far from perfect, with a fair many coins ending up overgraded or with problem coins not being noted as such over the last decade, they are still a darn sight better than an inexperienced rookie when it comes to grading coins. The people who are getting burned buying junk raw coins and then blaming PCGS and NGC when their gem turns out to be a dud should really be blaming themselves for being lazy and guileless, but as long as they remain easy marks, the dealers and sellers are not likely to disabuse them of their foolishness any time soon -- after all, their business depends on exactly this sort of collector. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The TPG have been around longer than the electronic social media, and believe me begining collectors were doing the same thing and making the same complaints long before instagram existed. Even on forums such as this one, the NGC forums, PCGS forums, and Cointalk, you will see complaints from disappointed experienced collectors as well. The difference being that the experienced people realize that although the TPG may be wrong, there is also a fair chance that they themselves are wrong. Edited by Conder101
01/24/2018 12:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4227 Posts |
I was pleasantly surprised by the number of coin people on Instagram when I started, but they're not all exactly experienced numismatists, even if they think so  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1653 Posts |
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In your opinion are the grading companies really slacking off They're as accurate as can be expected when glancing at a coin for less than a minute. Quote:
or are people just know-it-alls? Is that really the opposite? Or is it that when looking at a coin for hours, days even, and consulting groups for their opinions too, that more accurate grades can be achieved? Buy the coin, not the holder. |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Just because Grandpa used to crack proof lenses or mint packs and "send it in" don't mean gramps made a killing at it either! Once you've looked at LOTS of high grade coins for a LONG period of time, those slight minor flaws on that just cracked coins will jump out at the very learned professional graders that little look at me (mine) snowflakes haven't developed the eyes( or brains) for.
To answer the OPs question succinctly, with the increased amount of coinage being submitted for grading in this period of "coin infatuation fad", the Bigboys may indeed make some mistakes, its the odds of human nature. But yea, it is always wise to question ones own judgement....besides, these young bucks ain't been married yet! Lol!
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Or is it that when looking at a coin for hours, days even, and consulting groups for their opinions too, that more accurate grades can be achieved? Honestly that leads to less accurate grading looking at the coin for way to long. You end up just questioning yourself and talking yourself into and out of several different grades. Gut instincts/impressions are generally right or within +/- 1 for good graders. Over analyzing it just leads to you questioning yourself. It's like a multiple choice test in school, your first instinct was a far greater chance of being right and you almost always got the question wrong when you changed your answer 15 different times over thinking it. As far as group grading, it just depends on the group and the size of it. If you got the CAC and PCGS graders together for the group yes that group would have valuable input, often times though groups just end up with too many chefs in the kitchen. Group opinions often just lead to a compromise or get influenced by lesser skilled/informed members. Focus groups are great to figure out what products can be sold to the masses, not so much for skilled activities And then of course there's the fact that grading is not an exact science. It is subjective. It is an opinion, some opinions are just worth a lot more than others. |
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Replies: 9 / Views: 1,591 |
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Posted 01/23/2018 5:41 pm
