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 Replies: 17 / Views: 5,704 |
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New Member
United States
7 Posts |
I think I have a fake Gold Indian head $10 eagle. It would not fit in a direct fit airtite container made for $10 eagles. Just barely too big for the container. There are tiny raised ridges between some but not all of the stars that are on the "third " side of the coin. I'm new to this hobby so I haven't seen many of these coins but it's surface looks almost too good to be true. Shiny, no bag marks etc. It's a 1909 . Any thoughts? Thanks in advance Image:  Image:  Image:  Edited by retireasap
05/22/2008 9:53 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
it definitely does not have natural luster. It has a polished look, but that doesn't mean it is fake. What is that line above "In" on the reverse? There is also another line by the Indian's chin. Are these lines scratches, or are they actually raised? If they are raised, then that would be a strong indication of a counterfeit. My fake Indian Princess has two raised lines on the reverse that thoroughly condemn it. It is also lacking a lot of detail and looks "mushy"....though this could simply be because it has considerable wear and then was polished. I'm not an expert in Counterfeit Detection, but I've learned a lot through my experience. Have you tried to weigh it? It should be 16.7 grams, maybe a hair less for wear. If it weighs right, and is close to the right size, then even if it is fake, you at least have the melt value of the coin. The numismatic value on this coin wouldn't be much higher than melt(at least compared to my $3 indian princess). If you could take better pictures of the coin, that would help. Are there any raised lumps on the surface? That combined with mushy details is the tell tale sign of spark erosion counterfeits....but the surface looks pretty clean from these pics. Well, I'll sit back and let the experts chime in here. Good luck! John |
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New Member
 United States
7 Posts |
Polished look for sure. Lines are not on the coin, must be lens of camera. Surface is very clean. There are raised ridges between a few of the stars on the rim of the coin. I have read that indicates a fake. Have not weighed coin but will.
First pictures I've taken of a coin. Not easy to get a good picture. Any suggestions? I have every Kodak digital known to man.
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Valued Member
United States
177 Posts |
Have you checked the Coin Photography forum here? Lots of good information there, including a tutorial. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2269 Posts |
Johnny54321 has the right idea by weighing the coin. It should give you the best indication about its authenticity. As for airtite holders, I had a few coins that did not fit, so I wouldn't use that as an indication for a counterfeit coin.
Good luck and let us know how much it weighs.
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New Member
United States
7 Posts |
Well, it's good to hear that the airtite is inconclusive. I will keep you all posted as to the weight etc.
Thanks for your input........
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Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
I am no expert in gold eagles, but I do question the rim having sharp edges at about 8 o'clock on your last picture. This sharp edge around the rim could indicate that it is a cast replica. Good closeup pictures will be very helpful with authentication. Here are a few quick pointers for pics. 1-Use the macro setting on your camera. 2-Have your camera on a stand or tripod to keep it absolutely still. 3-Use the timer delay so you are not touching the camera as it captures the image. 4-Do not zoom in on the coin but rather place the coin as close to the lense as possible while still retaining a clear focus. 5-Try to have two light sources from different angles so you can eliminate shadows The following is the best topic I have seen lately on how to take good pics. https://goccf.com/t/29441 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1691 Posts |
I always buy TPG with coins over $100 to insure(?) authenticity... |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
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New Member
United States
7 Posts |
The coin weighed out exactly what it's suppose to.
Another coin dealer that I have a good relationship with took a look at it. He said the raised ridges between some but not all of the stars on the third side are a dead give away. He says it's fake but probably is gold.
Where would you take it to find out exactly what it's made of?
Would you send it to PCGS?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
PCGS won't tell you what it's made of. You can take it to a jewelry shop to have it test or you can buy a kit and test it yourself, but I believe in both ways it would cause some damage to the coin. But since it's not real, does it matter if it gets damaged a bit?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
I would go at this from the other angle. Even if you think it may be fake, I would send it to an expert for authentication. I would want to know beyond a doubt that it is fake before I start taking pieces out of it to test it's metal content. I am not certain how much they would charge you to authenticate it, but it may be worth it just for peace of mind.
Edited by NGiles
05/28/2008 11:27 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Actually, I would send the coin into ANACS. You don't need a membership, and if the coin is real, it is probably highly polished. ANACS would still slab it but it would get it bodybagged by PCGS. Can you describe the pattern of the raised lines? Here is an article referring to that. http://www.pcgs.com/articles/articl...d=313&type=1 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
I was doing some research tonight. I also have a 1908 $10 eagle and began looking at it. It is very worn, probably a VF-25, and is cleaned with a small amount of luster between the lettering. I am pretty certain it is authentic, but it also has some "raised lines" between the stars. I counted a total of 3 lines over the entire coin(each one being between 2 stars on the third edge).Locations(obverse as reference) are at approx 1oclock, 5oclock and 9oclock. I began getting really concerned based off of your post that mine might be fake. The weight on mine too checks out and it certainly feels authentic. It just doesn't make sense though that someone would counterfeit a very worn/cleaned indian eagle that is really only worth its weight in gold(that is about what I paid for it). So I began looking for "edge" pictures of the $10 eagle(kind of hard to find). Actually, I had to resort to ebay to get any online pictures. I found several pictures on ebay, both with the same line pattern as mine. I know ebay is not the most reliable source for seeking "authentic" coins, but I think the quantity of ones I found on ebay, all having the line in the same places on each coin even though they are different dates; speaks to it's authenticity. The PCGS site posted earlier speaks to a "group" of lines. So basically, if what your dealer said is true,"He said the raised ridges between some but not all of the stars on the third side are a dead give away." Then all of the coins shown here on ebay(and these are the ONLY ones I could find that have edge pictures included by the seller) are all counterfeit as well as my $10 indian eagle. Not only that, but the positioning of the counterfeit "lines" or "lack of lines" seem to be the same with each coin from what I can see. here are the links. You can see at least one of the raised lines on each of these eagles in the pictures; and mine is struck the same. http://cgi.ebay.com/1912-Gold-Eagle...ar_W0QQitemZ200227351672QQihZ010QQcategoryZ39471QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/Exceptional-191...-2_W0QQitemZ140236866536QQihZ004QQcategoryZ39471QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/1913-10-DOLLARS...IN_W0QQitemZ220238783524QQihZ012QQcategoryZ39471QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/1908-10-DOLLARS...IN_W0QQitemZ140236547273QQihZ004QQcategoryZ39471QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem So question to you "retireasap"...does your coin have a similar line pattern on the third edge as these pictures(since you mention a line between some stars and not others)? If so, I doubt that those characteristics condemn your coin....though it's possible that I am wrong. Also, does anyone else reading have this coin type and can offer a comparison? Edited by johnny54321
05/29/2008 02:10 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The stars are created on the edge of the coin by a three piece segmented collar that opened and closed around each planchet as it entered the press, was struck and then was ejected. At each of the places where the collar pieces come together there SHOULD BE a raised vertical line. So every genuine Saint-Gaudens eagle should have three vertical raised lines on the edge. If one is at 1:00 there should be one at 5:00 and one at 9:00.
So if the dealer saw those and actually said that those are a dead giveaway that it is fake, you need to find another dealer.
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Thanks Condor, that makes a lot of sense. This is exactly the type of info I was searching for.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 5,704 |
Posted 05/22/2008 10:06 pm
