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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,144 |
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Valued Member
United States
295 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11894 Posts |
i don't think this can be graded. I don't know what it is.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Nice lowball! It is recognizable to a date and variety by the obverse die features. I would say it makes at least Poor-1, but the dig on the reverse might Details it.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11894 Posts |
this looks like a pole and cap cent but these were only produced until 1796
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Yeah, it's pretty rough, bro. I have know idea what I'm looking at. I don't think it would make poor 1. Shoot me a message if you want some early coppers.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11894 Posts |
sorry, pole and cap Half Cents were made until 1797. I don't see any readable date though. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
02/13/2018 9:08 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11894 Posts |
Quote:
I would say it makes at least Poor-1, but the dig on the reverse might Details it. or the scratches, or the corrosion. seems like basal state. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
02/13/2018 9:10 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
295 Posts |
Quote:
this looks like a pole and cap cent but these were only produced until 1796 It's a Half Cent, not a large cent. This variety was minted from 1795 to 1797, and the identifiable overdate means it must be a 1797. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11894 Posts |
yeah, I got that. not convinced this is identifiable.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Quote:
and the identifiable overdate means it must be a 1797.  And for a quick and interesting history lesson, the planchet might have been one of these:   In 1794 William Talbot, William Allum, and James Lee, joined into a partnership to open an East India trading company located at 241 Water Street in New York City. At that time they commissioned Peter Kempson's mint in Birmingham, England to produce at least two tons of copper tokens for the firm. These tokens, probably designed by Thomas Wyon, bear the dates 1794 and 1795 and were designated as cents with an average weight just about the same as a regal British halfpenny. This was the first American merchant token produced on a large scale. In fact, so many were produced, the company had more than they could accommodate. On April 23, 1795, William Talbot sold the Philadelphia mint 1,076 pounds of the tokens (about 52,000), mostly the 1795 variety. The mint, desperatly seeking copper stock, used these tokens as planchets for the 1795 Half Cents variety without poles (which were actually minted in the spring of 1796). In 1796 Lee retired, and soon thereafter the firm dissolved. On December 10, 1796, the Philadelphia mint purchased all of the remaining stock of these tokens (1,914 pounds) from Mr. Talbot and used them as planchets for 1797 Half Cents. |
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Valued Member
United States
295 Posts |
Quote:
And for a quick and interesting history lesson, the planchet might have been one of these: That's really neat. I saw an example of one of these coins on PCGS CoinFacts that looked like it was struck over something else - a comparison with your image shows that it was indeed struck over that token: http://images.PCGS.com/CoinFacts/27...9966_max.jpg. I wonder if mine may have originally been one of those too. I can make out an extra "BE" to the right of what remains of "LIBERTY" on the obverse top. But I don't think that's enough to conclude anything with certainty. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Clueless on the date of the subject coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Basil State, cleaned, may be certified as GENUINE.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
Basal state. If you can't identify the date then it doesn't make PO-1.
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Valued Member
United States
271 Posts |
Really rough here. No grade
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Valued Member
United States
295 Posts |
To those saying it won't grade because the date is not visible - you do not actually have to be able to see the date in order for the coin to be graded. All you need is for the date to be determinable, which I can show for this coin. Even if you find the evidence for the "1 above 1" to be too sketchy, you can compare the location of the "L" in LIBERTY to the position of the Liberty cap. If you go on PCGS CoinFacts and look at all the die varieties for all the kinds of 1795 and 1796 "With Pole" Half Cents, you will see that the "L" is right next to the Liberty cap. On my piece, the "L" and the cap are separated by a large distance, which eliminates those two years. So it has to be a 1797. And if you look at the 1797 1 Above 1 and the 1797 Plain Edge types, the "L" is in fact far from the cap. I think that essentially proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that what I have is indeed a 1797. Whether or not the coin would straight grade at PCGS/NGC is a different story. But they would at least be able to slab it. |
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,144 |
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Posted 02/13/2018 9:02 pm
