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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,450 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
This dime is for sale by a well known trusted dealer. The dealer calls the dime original and grades the dime at vf35. I agree with the grade. When I look at the dime it appears to have had an old dip and put into an album and re-toned. Is this dime original? Has the term original changed or being used to mean not harshly cleaned? What is an original surface on a coin? Any opinions are welcome.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Sure looks like an old cleaning to me, but Fortin is a big name.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4469 Posts |
Quote:I looked at Gerry Fortin's description, and saw that he has several quality ratings. This one is labeled as Original, not Gem or Choice. See this link for more information: http://seateddimevarieties.com/GFRC...yRating.html On Fortin's ratings he does describe original rating as the coin that may be dipped or lightly cleaned. I thought that a coin's original surface was an unaltered surface, that was not dipped or cleaned. Fortin does describe the coin surface as follows, "Original surfaces are problem free. Obverse is especially attractive with old album rose-blue peripheral toning". |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Major TPGs are giving type coins like these a pass on old cleanings, so...:-/
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
I wouldn't buy this one if you're looking for an original example. Fortin has some others that looks much more original than this one.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
We have to base our opinion by photos, but it has the dull look of an over dipped silver.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
The brown and blue toning looks pretty dippy, with a blowtorch or frying pan thrown in for emphasis.
Just cleaned up an ex-jewelry 1858-S half eagle with silver test solution. The old solder came off completely. Rare that this happens. The underlying rim is not perfect but it doesn't look ex-jewelry any more.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
03/15/2018 4:43 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Original means whatever the seller wants it to.
To me, "original" means that the coin has not had any of its surfaces altered in any way except as occurs through circulation, handling, and natural environmental exposure.
This coin would not meet MY definition of original.
However, if you define original a bit more loosely -- say, not HARSHLY cleaned, or not OVERLY dipped...then of course this is an original coin.
You could also say that "original" means "in the precise condition it was in when I acquired it."
At the extreme, you can define "original" as "not counterfeit" and this certainly qualifies...
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Here's another one with original surfaces....sheeeeeessh. Really. 302667265025Edited by edweather
03/18/2018 1:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
Quote:
.Here's another one with original surfaces....sheeeeeessh. Really. Is it possible that's a fake slab? From what I have seen most tpgs tend to be quite optimistic when grading Seated coinage, But that's pretty extreme. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Genuine slab, genuine coin. Dipped in the past, but the seller does not claim it to be original surfaces. Market acceptable to me and the sharpness grade of AU53 is about right based on the photos.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
You are correct about seller not claiming original, but they don't have to. PCGS gives it a problem free (albiet market aceptable in their opinion) pass. We can agree to disagree on this one. I don't want shiny well circulated coins 150 years old, just isn't right imo.  Edited by edweather
03/18/2018 10:27 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
The fact that I think it's market acceptable does not mean I'd want to own it.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Not Gem or Choice. These terms normally apply to MS grades.
Graded VF35. I also agree with the seller.
How is 'original' related to grade, or is it related to a 'details'?
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Replies: 19 / Views: 3,450 |
Posted 03/15/2018 1:06 pm
