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Unidentified Coin #2 - Norman Sicily? Tiny

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 Posted 04/06/2018  3:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This second coin is one that I've had for well over a year - and it still defies attribution; of course, it doesn't help that it also appears to defy half-decent photography.

Seriously: the photos below are the best of several dozen attempts. Most came out as useless splotches even with flash.

Seller's attribution: Norman Sicily. Given the design (Arabic on one side, apparent gibberish on the other), I have no immediate reason to disbelieve this.
Tiny - 8-9 mm, perhaps about 0.2-0.3 g (the ruler balance gets a bit uncertain with such tiny weights).
Not actually sure if copper, billon, or even toned silver.

Unidentified-Coin-#2---Norman-Sicily?-Tiny Unidentified-Coin-#2---Norman-Sicily?-Tiny

Again - any ideas what this is?
I wasn't able to find a match in online listings of Norman Sicily, and I don't know whether I should have checked anything else (or where, for that matter).

(Not actually sure why I didn't post this earlier. I really want to say that I did and just can't remember, but it's not in my previous uploads either.)
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 Posted 04/14/2018  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@J1M, sorry that it has taken me a little while to investigate this. I have nothing Earth-shattering for you, but here are my thoughts:

1. At 9 mm and 0.15 g, the the denomination would have to be a Fractional Follaro, although most issues of this type were a bit larger and heavier than your coin (perhaps a bit of edge chipping has reduced the dimensions and weight of your coin). The next smallest denomination (Fractional Dirham) is about the same diameter, but 0.5 to 1.0 g in weight. Even if we assume that a third of your coin has been lost to edge chipping, I don't see this coin getting up to 0.5 g.

2. I don't see a cross or eagle on this coin, which means that if it was from medieval Sicily, it would have to be from before 1189 AD or so. After that, virtually all coins have crosses or eagles or both.

3. The only ruler who minted the Fractional Follaros between 1072 and 1189 AD was Ruggero I. That means that your coin would have to be Biaggi #1212. Unfortunately, your coin is not a very good match visually. The Kufic script on your coin seems to be in two rows, while the rev of #1212 has only a single line of text. Additionally, the obv of this coin (which would correspond to your second pic) should have a solid, six-pointed star in the middle. I have cropped, enhanced, and blown-up your pic and still see nothing resembling a star in the center. I conclude therefore that your coin doesn't seem like a match for this coin.

4. I will say that the use of Kufic script plus concentric solid line circles with round denticles is pretty typical of this place and time.

5. My best guess is that this was an unofficial issue from the around the mid-12th Century. The degenerate legend in your second pic looks vaguely like REX, which is an inscription on the fairly common Fractional Follaros of William I "The Bad". Your coin would have been underweight, but perhaps was convincing enough that it circulated. This is total speculation on my part, but it is the best that I've got.

Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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 Posted 04/20/2018  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, 0.2-0.3 g means 0.25 g, not 0.15 g, so it's not that underweight. (I checked with a better scale and it was actually 0.24 grams.)

Does the "typical of this place and time" comment mean that you agree with it more likely being Norman Sicily than something else entirely?

(Incidentally, you seem to have a contradiction - you attribute "Fractional Follaros" both to Ruggero I and William I, while saying that the former was the only one. Is the latter mention supposed to refer to some other denomination?)

[EDIT: thanks for the help anyway! I hoped that the gibberish could be matched to some known type, but even if it isn't and this is an unofficial imitation, it's still an interesting coin either way.]
Edited by january1may
04/20/2018 1:05 pm
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 Posted 04/20/2018  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry not to have been more clear @j1m. Based soley on the diameter and weight, your coin would have to be from Ruggero I. The design is not a match at all though so I conclude that this is not one of his coins. Rather, the design is more similar to a coin of William I. I don't think that it can be an official issuance of his though.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5176 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2018  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
...Weird how I suddenly end up finding more in a hour of resigned searching than I was able to in several previous attempts, including asking this forum.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=l...065&lot=1246
(Roger II, billon kharruba)

I'm not saying it's a match (in fact it probably isn't), but it's about the right size, about the right weight, and their second side looks darn similar to my first one...

(There are several other 12th century kharruba types that are also somewhat similar... though most are apparently usually larger - or at least heavier - and the later ones don't appear to be in Kufic either.)
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