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1968 S LMC Doubled Die?

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Jim0815's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  1:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I found this 1968 S LMC that appears to be doubled die. I have had this idea pounded into my mind on what to be aware of by very knowledgeable people, Coop, Crazyb0, V&E and so many others. So I started slowing down and actually started looking at worthless doubling and actual DD cents to differentiate the two. I hope I am seeing what I think I am on this cent. There is a slight separation on the N in IN as well as slight separation in GOD. Nothing is shelf like and hopefully by my pics the O and D in GOD look somewhat distorted compared to a normal cent. I have found some DDO's for the 1968 S LMC but am unsure which one it could be if it is at all. I also know how hard it is to find a 1968 DDO because of the design mistake produced for that year. Insight please.
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
1968-S-LMC-Doubled-Die?
Edited by Jim0815
05/21/2018 1:20 pm
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Crazyb0's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well you are getting the hang of it....but...again the MD bug bit ya. This is called "high bounce MD". I explain it like this. When you hammer a nail into wood, the hammer will bounce a number of times per hit. This is physics, the release of energy. The hammer doesn't land exactly in the same place each time(no matter how hard you try). Your coin received one of those numerous hits. A good carpenter uses this to his advantage through muscle training to use minimum whacks per nail. Same physics principle in machine presses, release of energy, plus a myriad of machining factor, adjustments, wear, maintenance.

Now, two other things here on the 66-68 cents. The master hubs were older, worn out, making the details larger and has metal movement/die deterioration on the hubs. Hence, I call them balloon letters are common. On your coin, those are normal size letters for a 68, not an increased size. Remember, hub doubling ALWAYS INCREASES size, slightly to readily evident, and not always with a distinct division line either. Hope this helps!

Personally, I think the Class 6 Rotated Hubs are the toughest to learn to spot, I'm still working on those. The slightest rotation, particularly of same sized hubs, is extremely difficult to see. On those, I take KNOWN date/MM cioins and scope each. To randomly check each coin becomes a fools errand really quick!
Edited by Crazyb0
05/21/2018 1:43 pm
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually these are listed:
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
But I realize now that Nothing is doubled. Nothing is enlarged. And considering that MD was very common that year, that would make more sense that it is MD. (But I'm going to check other sites to see if they list them or not)

Wexler lists it (as I have always thought as working hub doubling)

Quote:
1968-S 1¢ WWHO-001
Description: A very slight CW spread shows on the LIBE of LIBERTY. A spread towards the rim shows on IGWT.
Die Markers: The obverse and reverse die markers will vary with each affected working die.
Submitted By: Various individuals.
Cross References: None known
Comments: Numerous working dies for all three Mints were created with this doubled working hub including S-Mint proof dies.


Variety Vista Lists several:
http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20...8SDDO001.htm
http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20...8SDDO003.htm
http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20...8SDDO007.htm
http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20...8SDDO009.htm

So I agree with Wexler, that it was common and is working hub doubling. It was an easier find that any other DDOs that year.
Edited by coop
05/21/2018 1:53 pm
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 Posted 05/21/2018  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Crazyb0, but again, it's not Machine Doubling. This is actually a genuine Doubled Die Obverse. There's absolutely no reduction of the devices, so it's not Machine Doubling.
Errers and Varietys.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
(re-read my post above I added more information on this subject)
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Jim0815's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mr. Coop, I guess I've become so gun shy of posting DDO's that I don't make a typed comparison. But, it looks and awful lot like a DDO-007. Especially with coin in hand. But then again I absolutely understand what Crazyb0 is telling me as well and both would make sense. I'm almost as confused now as I was when I first looked at this coin!
Edited by Jim0815
05/21/2018 2:14 pm
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Ilikeabecoins's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  2:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ilikeabecoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use the images on the PCGS site from the Coinfacts tab. This shows me what coins that have been submitted for grading look like. The designs can vary from year to year.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I always thought it was a master die because they were so easy to find. In searching BU rolls you would find several. I asked Bob that question and he assured me it was a DDO. But always had my doubts until I read John Wexler's thread. Then it made total sense. It was a working hub issue. With that being an issue, you would have several working dies with different mint mark locations. So I'm not confused anymore. It is a Working hub issue that passed the same doubling down on every die it was used on. It makes sense now to me.
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Jim0815's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mr. Coop, what I have is a DDO, that came from a doubled working hub, correct? The reason I am asking this question is because I need some clarity in case I run into something like this again. I fully understand what causes an ACTUAL doubled die and how they come about as well as what Crazyb0 was explaining to me.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some experts are calling the doubled dies, others not as they are from a working hub. I feel John has it correct. In time all with realize who is right and wrong. But it just takes time. On site will call a 1956-D/S on two different dies, the other denies both. So it is still up in the air. So don't sweat the differences. Keep them marked as what source they are using, you may want to put what all three call it on the 2X2. Eventually it will be sorted out.
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Tanman2001's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It wouldn't hurt to keep it. I personally have only seen a few dies that show the doubling as nicely as this one. Since the letters are so close to the rim, gradual die wear and deterioration, as well as wear from circulation, makes the doubling impossible to see on most circulated 1968 cents.

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Jim0815's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone! At least my mindset is on the right track while looking at and for Doubled Die cents. And, it will definitely be put into a 2x2. I'm glad to have it.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
See the attributers are usually not in contact with each other. Every once in a while you will see them discuss things. (I was involved with an on line conversation years ago with several of the experts on the subject of trail dies and wavy steps. Several keyed in the views. and finally they determined they were not doubled dies and when a new direction.) So why some cover them, others do not. Some sometime they may read each other information and move forward one way or another. So when they parley again, I hope I have a part again.
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Jim0815's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2018  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope you do too Mr. Coop.
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