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Looking For Info 1790 Germany 1 Heller - Bavaria MS-65

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DDODave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  4:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add DDODave to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just bought this coin and am really happy with it, but cannot find anything out about it. It is odd when I look up a 1790 Germany Bavaria 1 Heller they do not look like this. Any help out there? I am not sure that this is a Bavarian German State 1 Heller.
Looking-For-Info-1790-Germany-1-Heller---Bavaria-MS-65
Looking-For-Info-1790-Germany-1-Heller---Bavaria-MS-65
Looking-For-Info-1790-Germany-1-Heller---Bavaria-MS-65
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Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2018  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It was a city issued coin similar to this, another city in"Bavaria" at the time
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces29843.html

I'm still lookin"

Closer, wrong date and base of lion, Frankfurt?
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces93954.html

? I have NO idea which city, this was a time of shifting alliances and rule, so...
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces80196.html


One good sign:

https://www.NGCcoin.com/certlookup/4692652-003/65/

Someone with more than Numista references may know, sorry.
Edited by Crazyb0
05/25/2018 5:14 pm
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DDODave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  5:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DDODave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, that is helpful - I will keep looking
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Crazyb0's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sure it's the correct coin, just which city-state or Duchy was it? I PMed Spence, he has some references that may help.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's not what is listed in my old Craig catalog for 1 Heller Bavaria, C50
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hesse-Cassel. Craig #88. One year issue.

https://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide...duid-1348109
Edited by tdziemia
05/25/2018 6:13 pm
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Crazyb0's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  6:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's why! HesseKassel was a Landgraviate of the Emporer (Holy Roman)at the time, it was Napoleon in 1803 that changed it and its coinages pending the abolition of the Holy Roman Empire in 1806. Too many boundaries and alligiences to remember, plus the no pix on NGC just breezed over it!

The region of Germany is known as Bavaria, but in specific it was its own city/state of Hesse-Kassel

Where our "buddies" the Hessians came from that Geo Washington captured after crossing the Delaware
Edited by Crazyb0
05/25/2018 6:39 pm
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DDODave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DDODave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fantastic!! Thanks for the help, this one was driving me crazy. I kept coming back to Hasse-Kassel but did not realize that was part of Bavaria.
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Crazyb0's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At that time the Hesse area was thought of as of Bavaria but your coin coffin is wrong in saying it is Bavaria, it is Hesse-Kassel in 1790, a separate division
Looking-For-Info-1790-Germany-1-Heller---Bavaria-MS-65
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DDODave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DDODave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, if they had labeled it Hesse-Kassel instead of Bavaria, I would have found it much easier.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2018  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
your coin coffin is wrong in saying it is Bavaria


Yep. They blew it. Not even close.
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DDODave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2018  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DDODave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What dod you think the chances are of getting NGC to relabel it?
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2018  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What dod you think the chances are of getting NGC to relabel it?


They'll fix it for free if they agree it is wrong. Just contact them on Tuesday and they'll tell you what you need to do to get it fixed
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2018  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never dealt with them, but I certainly would ask.

If you look at their website, they seem to go to great lengths to guarantee their services: https://www.NGCcoin.com/coin-gradin...C-guarantee/

I would think that if they made a mistake, they would be willing to correct it. You may want to be prepared to politely point out their own website identifies the coin as Hesse-Cassel KM#540.
Edited by tdziemia
05/26/2018 1:23 pm
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2018  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I PMed Spence, he has some references that may help.


Sorry for dropping the ball, but it looks like you still got your attribution. In defense of NGC, our understanding of the multitude of German City States, Bishoprics, Duchies, etc. is still developing. That said, things should be pretty well defined by the late 18th Century. I agree that if NGC has made an error, that they should fix it for you.

It is a very nice coin, by the way. I'm not usually a big fan of slabbing these things, but the superior condition probably warrants it.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Dorado's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2018  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dorado to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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