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 Replies: 28 / Views: 7,369 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Prompted by a statement made in another thread, I just wanted to point out a common misconception in the ancients-collecting-world regarding the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation. Often new collectors of ancients - and even some seasoned collectors - mistakenly think that an NGC-encapsulated ancient coin has been certified as authentic by the numismatists at NGC. This is simply not the case. While NGC will only encapsulate coins they believe are authentic, they don't claim that belief is necessarily accurate. One major auction house has most of its ancients encased by NGC prior to listing them. I think they (the auction house) is perhaps taking advantage of - and, in the process, propagating - this misconception. Where ancient coins are concerned, NGC only guarantees their grading. (Even so, there is no shortage of debate regarding some of their grading) NGC neither claims nor certifies that coins they slab are authentic. As stated at the following page from NGC's site, "...due to the inconsistency of opinions on these matters in the marketplace, no guarantee is made or implied about the authenticity of coins graded by NGC Ancients." That statement pretty much sums it up. NGC does not claim that a coin in one of their slabs is necessarily authentic. Their encapsulation and labeling should not be thought of as a certification of authenticity. It is therefore a mistake to suggest that an encapsulated coin has been guaranteed authentic by NGC. https://www.NGCcoin.com/specialty-s...e-grade.aspxElsewhere on their site (specifically, at https://www.NGCcoin.com/specialty-s...arantee.aspx ) are these statements: "NGC Ancients...does not guarantee authenticity, genuineness or attribution, nor is any guarantee of these aspects implied...with ancient coins NGC Ancients will only guarantee the grade...WARNING: THIS GUARANTEE IS LIMITED TO GRADING ONLY" It's also important to know, again especially for newish collectors of ancients, that attribution mistakes are sometimes made by NGC. I've spotted a number of them, specifically with regard to my collecting area, Parthians, through the years. Personally, if I ever wanted to send a coin off to obtain what I would consider to be a more meaningful statement about authenticity, I would send it to David Sear: http://www.davidrsear.com/certification.html(Having said that, I do recall one online debate about a coin Sear had certified) Edited by Kamnaskires
06/23/2018 7:02 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Excellent point Bob, IMO and ancient coin should not be slabbed and it's a waste of money to have it done. I trust have the coin certified by David Sear, rather than being slabbed by NGC.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
That point is without contention, as far as I know.
Authentication is difficult on many ancient examples, even within a given area of expertise.
I don't own a slabbed ancient. However, those who enjoy them have as much right to do so.
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Valued Member
154 Posts |
Wow,then its probably better we didnt buy any NGC coins then since they are always more expensive then NON NGC coins.
Cheers Bob!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7066 Posts |
Quote:
Wow,then its probably better we didnt buy any NGC coins  I think Ron and many others would agree with that. However, some would argue that the slabs may be beneficial when it comes time to sell a coin since so many collectors still feel safer (perhaps naively so) buying encapsulated coins. I don't shop for slabbed coins. In several cases I have freed coins in my collections from their slabs. Two of them I left in place...I may yet free them. I don't think it's necessarily a right or wrong - just a matter of preference. But, I just wanted to make sure (with this thread) that no one is hunting specifically for NGC slabbed ancients thinking that it's an assurance - a guarantee - of authenticity. Because it is not. |
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Valued Member
154 Posts |
Its funny you said that because in one regard I would like some coins to be sealed in a case9 if they are more fragile and more expensive and easier to scratch like a silver or gold coin, On the OTHER hand actually having the coins unsealed allows myself or anyone else to physically hold the coin, in my opinion making it feel more real and the fact that you are holding a real piece of history, rather than a piece of history shrouded in clear plastic like some vintage baseball card, actually feels cooler and worth the money, especially to a history buff like myself.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Quote:
holding a real piece of history SO important to so many ancients collectors. That's at the heart of the issue for them, and why so many opt for:  |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
I am not an Ancients collector, but I am also a new collector overall so I may end up in that area someday and this information is certainly appreciated, Bob.  As to slabs in general, I am more familiar with them now because of a slowly growing collection of them, but I am not yet experienced enough to decide to crack one.  In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7936 Posts |
How about authenticity guarantees for medievals?
I have a couple of slabbed medievals (14-15th c.) which have tempted me to resort to the hammer, since they cannot be displayed with the others that are in 2 x 2s.
I probably wouldn't have to worry about resale if I did I that, since they would likely do best in auctions where the majority of the other items would be unslabbed.
Edited by tdziemia
06/24/2018 08:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Ted, according to NGC's website, their ancients division (NGC Ancients) grades coins up through 1453:
"NGC ANCIENTS: COINS WE GRADE
We attribute and grade most coins struck in the Western World from the origins of coinage through c. AD 500, as well as most coins of the Byzantine Empire (AD 491-1453)."
Thus, implicitly, the disclaimer on the second link I provided, which is specific to NGC Ancients, applies to medievals. But that's just my reading...perhaps non-Byzantine medievals may be exempted from this? Best to contact them for clarification.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7936 Posts |
Thanks, Bob. BTW, still no coins from Italy (tomorrow makes 4 months since the auction).  |
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New Member
United Kingdom
25 Posts |
> Holding a piece of history
Spot on!
If its a slab, I may as well just go to the museum and stare at theirs.
But hammering a slab sounds dodgy (sorry if that's obvious). Being in the UK, I've only had to ever open one so far, but a Dremel cuts through the glued edges very easily, and if you like, you can then keep it in now-opened slab.
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Valued Member
France
326 Posts |
Very helpful point made by Bob. I don't like encapsulated coins in any case...
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Valued Member
154 Posts |
Does anyone guarantee coins after inspecting it by some experts?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
Quote:
Does anyone guarantee coins after inspecting it by some experts? I believe the best answer(s) may have already been given: Quote:Personally, if I ever wanted to send a coin off to obtain what I would consider to be a more meaningful statement about authenticity, I would send it to David Sear: http://www.davidrsear.com/certification.html(Having said that, I do recall one online debate about a coin Sear had certified) Quote:
I trust have the coin certified by David Sear, rather than being slabbed by NGC. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
06/25/2018 01:51 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3438 Posts |
Experts can only offer learned "opinions"
Since no opinion can be considered 100% accurate all the time the simple answers is no ! There is no single expert you can be absolutely sure about all of the time.
It's all about trust really
Call it "faith" if you like !
The Pope can give you a signed letter guaranteeing you a place in heaven but whether St Peter lets you in .......
In this case we the faithful regard Mssr Sear as being similar to the Pope.
If he says "good" we accept it as good
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Replies: 28 / Views: 7,369 |
Posted 06/23/2018 7:38 pm
