1794 8 Reales - Silver Plated Copper Contemporary Counterfeit - Value?

It is a rather modrn Chinese forgery.
(my opinion)
Even with the (silver) plating, it has no value

I agree that it looks like a contemporary counterfeit and would have value. How much depends on the rarity. There definitely are collectors out there.

There is a book about them - I looked through my copy and I think the obverse may be a match to an example shown but the reverse looks like a different die so I am not sure....

This is the book:

https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-...p/0990802906

Thanks that helps a lot

Albert You ask about the value of counterfeits.




The issue is quite a bit more complex.

The quantity of silver has little to no bearing on the value of counterfeit silver dollars to collectors familiar with the topic. Many of the most common counterfeits are those that are very high in silver content.

Quality (condition) is also a poor indication of value. In many instances it is only very common types of counterfeits that are found in high grades.

The most collectable counterfeits are coins that actually circulated and which were made for circulation. The forgeries made to decieve collectors are of almost no value over intrinsic value. So I will limit my comments on value to actual circulating contemporary counterfeit coins.

Rarity of type is paramount.

I will try to illustrate using Spanish American types because those are my primary area of expertise.

Among Mexican 8 reales the relative order of value is:
Iturbide are rarest
Hookneck
Portrait Charles III
Portrait Ferdinand VII
Portrait Charles IIII
Cap and Ray - First Republic
Cap and Ray - Second Republic are most common

Within each type of Counterfeit there is an order of value by method of creation:
Struck from engraved dies with serious errors are best
Struck from engraved dies
Struck from transfer image dies
Cast from engraved or carved molds
Cast from transfer image molds are of limited value

Finally there is an overlapping consideration of the materials used;
Sheffield Plate on Copper (only struck) Best
Sheffield Plate on German Silver (only struck)
Debased Silver
Copper with a Silver amalgam or paint
Base metal electroplated
Zinc alloys, tin alloys and white metal. Worst

The final ranking would pertain to the denomination.
8 Reales are the most common
2 reales are second
1 reales are third
4 reales are fourth
1/2 reales are fifth
1/4 reales in silver are the least common

Those are rules of thumb and pertain to sales among experienced collectors. Novices typically get this wrong.

Interest level and collector base is of course very critical as well. There are hundreds of collectors interested in British and Irish half penny colonial counterfeits, so the prices are higher for coins that would be considered common in other series. The fact of the matter is that there are relatively few counterfeits in existance and the number clearly decreases with age.

I hope that is clear, but the best teacher is experience.

Here is my take on the value of the original coin pictured:

It is a struck Sheffield plate coin believed to originate in Birmingham UK. It is the original form of Sheffield plate (silver over copper hot bonded). There are no traces of a ribbon edge. It is made from dies that were punched using very well made but "fantasy" punches. The punches are part of a set used on all related dies. As I noted above this family consists of a growing number of die matings involving no fewer than 7 dies (there are 3 other dies that may be linked). As such it is a member of one of the most common of the Birmingham die families and would likely be a target for collectors seeking a key type. The grade is below average for the family but not in what I would call the base level. Many issues related to this example were later marked with Bank of England or Scottish Bank marks and therefore they tend to distort the market prices for the family. A coin in the same grade with a Scottish trade stamp would bring at least $500.

Prices for the family should have a base minimum of $35 for a low grade but fully identifiable coin (Pr-AG). Under average coins like this (G-VG) sell near $60 and $100 in average condition (Fine), $150 for over average (VF) and about $300 for the best known examples (w/o stamps) which are about EF. I have yet to see an AU or MS example of the type but would place a correct price at about $1000. This is My opinion of a fair value given the low numbers available. If 100 collectors catch the bug for this type there are NOT enough examples known to satisfy demand.

This scale of prices applies only to Sheffield over copper (UK) types made from dies engraved or punched from non-royal designs that have NO serious errors.

Date errors like this coin dated before 1770 or after 1822 have a base line over $100 and run up faster.


It is better to think in terms of a base price (or range) for each type.

Cast types using transfer molds for me have a base of $5 and a high of $20.