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1787 Fugio Is It Real?

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New Member

United States
16 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  11:19 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Goldie1492 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I found this coin in my inherited coins and would like to know if anyone can tell if it is real or counterfeit.
New Member
United States
16 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Goldie1492 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I said before I am new and I hope the pictures are now included

Image: 1787-Fugio-Is-It-Real? 1787Fugio.jpg
66.11 KB

Image: 1787-Fugio-Is-It-Real? 1787Fugio2.jpg
64.76 KB
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1sikevo's Avatar
United States
1130 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1sikevo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks cast to me, but you might want to bring it to a reputable coin dealer just to be sure.
New Member
United States
16 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Goldie1492 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By cast, do you mean counterfeit?
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cast or not, this is an interesting example (to my inexpert eyes.)
Based on other Fugios I've looked at, the wear patterns appear normal--I like the appearance.
What is particularly interesting about this coin is the position of "UNITED STATES" on the reverse.
Normally, this legend flanks "WE ARE ONE", while here it's aligned vertically.
I have to wonder why a copy appearing faithful to other details would be different here.
Unless there's no die variety with this legend position, I wouldn't write this one off yet--IMO.
Edited by KurtS
07/16/2008 12:27 pm
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1sikevo's Avatar
United States
1130 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1sikevo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most coins were struck (impressions made by die impact on a blank planchet). This coin's surface seems a little granular and slightly mushy to me, giving me the impression that this was cast (pouring liquid metal into a mold). I'm not the expert on this subject and that is why I recommended seeing a coin dealer or sending it for certification from the 4 major TPGs.
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Bilbo's Avatar
United States
812 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bilbo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know if it's real, but it is either a Newman 11-A or a good copy of one. That is the one Fugio Cent variety with the word 'United' on top and 'States' beneath "We Are One." (It also has the die crack at 8 o'clock on the reverse that your example has.)

Below are a couple relevant Fugio links:
http://coinfacts.com/colonial_coins...t_n011_A.htm
http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/
Edited by Bilbo
07/16/2008 10:43 pm
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bilbo,
How interesting. Comparing a Newman 11-A from Heritage, I see how a lot of little details match, notably those die cracks, the detail of the W in WE, denticles in the loop near the crack, etc. There's even that bulge in the denticles above the topmost ring on the reverse. Here's a comment from Heritage on the 11-A:

Quote:
Fewer than two dozen 11-As are believed to exist, roughly half of which originated with the Bank of New York hoard.

So the question is--did somebody make a copy using a Newman 11-A on hand?
I hope you have this coin checked out--and keep us in the loop
Edited by KurtS
07/16/2008 3:09 pm
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm assuming the color is off because of the way the image was made so I'm not considering that. But in general what I see looks good. It does appear to be an 11-A, but there we may have a problem. I don't have Newmans new book on the Fugios but the Breen encyclopedia saws that these came from the Bank of New York hoard and that all survivors are MS or near MS. This one obviously isn't even close and that sets up some good size red flags.
New Member
United States
16 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Goldie1492 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone for your input. Any suggestions on how to find a reputable coin dealer?
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Pennypusher's Avatar
United States
486 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pennypusher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look under coins in the Yellow pages. You can also google: coin shop in your city, then click on maps. This way it will show you were the shops are located. -PP
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Coinwhiz1776's Avatar
United States
100 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinwhiz1776 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Depends on where you live. I would look up a few coin dealers in the phone book, call a few numbers, and whichever one sounds the oldest try first. Worked for me! Old people are less likely to scam you or something like that.
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pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coinwhiz1776 said: Old people are less likely to scam you or something like that.

Why, thank you, Whiz! We old guys appreciate that!
Valued Member
United States
201 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Steamwalker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But they will keep you on the phone longer. :)
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1sikevo's Avatar
United States
1130 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1sikevo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Goldie - What city do you live in ? I would try to find a dealer that is certified by PCGS or NGC. They can submit your coin for authentication if it does look genuine.
New Member
United States
16 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2008  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Goldie1492 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I live in the Pittsburgh area. Last year I went to a coin show, my first and only one so far, and talked to a man and told him what I had and he suggested I email him a picture and he would let me know what he thought. I did not do anything further with the coins until this week. I emailed him the picture today and he said he could not tell from the photo but if I sent it to him he could appraise it for me. He also said he is an agent for PCGS abd NGC but, I still do not think I would want to send it to a stranger in Nebraska. If it is real I think it could be worth a considerable amount of money.
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