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1853 Large Cent: Error Or PMD?

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1796NoPole's Avatar
United States
286 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  01:49 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 1796NoPole to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just came across this very unusual specimen. I have absolutely no idea how it'd be possible for one to just break a coin like this without the planchet having been close to breaking to begin with, but I'm nonetheless very suspicious of this one in particular because the coin is circulated and both halves seem evenly worn. Is this just some type of PMD, or is it the large cent equivalent of the amazing Broken CC? You decide.

1853-Large-Cent:-Error-Or-PMD?

1853-Large-Cent:-Error-Or-PMD?

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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  08:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting type of break. I'm sure it's some type of PMD.
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  08:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if Mike would want to see this one?
John1
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ZenFE99's Avatar
United States
150 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ZenFE99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The bend going through America (likely where it was held), and the overall condition show it happened well after minting. Plus what are the odds it happened at the mint, and someone saved both pieces?
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The damage by AM is PSD, but it IS possible for a coin to crack and break like that. Cracks in the strip can happen during rolling if the strip was improperly annealed. It is also possible for the strip to be brittle and crack due to certain impurities in the metal. This coin may have been punched from on of these areas and been almost completely cracked in two, they someone finished the job damaging the AM area in the process.
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1796NoPole's Avatar
United States
286 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1796NoPole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I'd love to know what Mike has to say about this. I wouldn't give it a second look if broken CC didn't exist, but we know it's at least possible for this to be a planchet error. Not to mention I have no clue how one would make pure copper brittle enough post-mint to crack it in half.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
United States
74060 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's an altered coin showing Post Strike Damage ( PSD), but I will contact Mike Diamond, so he can take a look at this one.
Errers and Varietys.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2736 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a dent on the reverse and a corresponding bulge on the obverse that represent post-strike damage. However, the break itself doesn't look like it was assisted. As a result, I would tentatively conclude that this is a genuine "broken coin".
Error coin writer and researcher.
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1796NoPole's Avatar
United States
286 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2018  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1796NoPole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did a little digging on the subject and encountered this thread which mentions that it's possible to break a coin by dipping it in liquid nitrogen. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/br...-1888.33219/

There's also one here about a Buffalo nickel which briefly mentions the same possibility. Is this a valid hypothesis?
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  5:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Submersion in a liquid gas might do it but I think it would probably have to be colder than liquid nitrogen.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36741 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not a mint error.
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1796NoPole's Avatar
United States
286 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1796NoPole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey conder can you take a look at my other thread and help me out? thx
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Kopper Ken's Avatar
United States
3402 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2018  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do the interior edges look like there was any metal defect?

KK
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2019  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was doing some research into broken planchets, and I came across this thread. I am now the owner of this coin. I bought it to determine whether or not it was PMD. Here is my explanation:

"This coin had a planchet defect that was hidden under the surface. It circulated for years until it was in F condition. Then one day something hit the reverse at 2:00. The coin was sitting on another coin, so there was a design transfer on the opposite side of the hit. This caused the coin to ring and resonate with such vigor that the planchet defect exacerbated and nearly broke the coin into two pieces. The two pieces hung by a thread, but a slight bending force caused the bridge to break. In an attempt to put the coin back into circulation, the owner tried to crimp the two pieces back together, but it did not hold. I find it truly amazing that the two pieces managed to stay together for 150 years."

The surface along the break is crumbly like one would expect for a planchet flaw. There is no evidence that the failure was caused by bending, and there is absolutely no evidence of cutting. As for the liquid nitrogen theory, copper remains ductile well into cryogenic temperatures down to 20 K, so low temperatures did not cause this coin to become brittle and break.
Edited by TypeCoin971793
04/04/2019 10:02 am
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