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1878-S Seated Half - Counterfeit.

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Jadey's Avatar
United States
900 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  5:22 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This is a story 8 years in the making. Its a bit long, so you are welcome to just skip to the pictures at the end.

In 2010, I was acquiring large lots of silver coins and assorted other coins that came with them. I was basically bidding spot prices with some premiums for the coin groupings that warranted them. I received this coin in a large coin lot from ebay just after Christmas when we were getting ready to go out of town. I was looking through the 2010 Red Book, and saw a value of $44,000. I had to look a few times and get my wife to verify that I was reading it right. I started to get excited and took a couple of pictures under the microscope of the date, and a few of the mintmark, but something didn't look right. The S appeared to be in the wrong location relative to the pictures on Coinfacts. The date looked a bit off as well. And I saw some indications that it may have been clamped into a vise at some point. Additionally, I weighed it and the weight was a bit light. I was pretty certain it was fake, but I had to set it aside, because we were heading out of town to go snowboarding.

A couple of nights later around midnight, we get a call from the security company saying that our basement water alarms were going off (we had them wired in to ADT because we had a few basement flooding issues). We had a neighbor check it out, and there was water pouring out of the siding of the house on the top floor. A pipe had burst in the bathroom and had flooded the bathroom, the kitchen below, and into the basement where the water alarm detected it.

Well, we had to call servepro, and the neighbor and a bunch of strangers had to go into the house and bedroom and clear out a bunch of stuff out of our closets so they could pull up the carpets, and start the flood remediation. My neighbor laughed about how he was carrying these heavy boxes and bags of coins into the spare room.

When we got home the next day, I figured there would be stuff missing, what with all the strangers walking through within easy access to them. Despite all this chaos everything seemed to be accounted for except this coin.
I scoured everything looking for this coin and never found it.

Fast forward to about 2 months ago. I was thinking about submitting some coins for grading, and was going through some of my better coins to see if anything was worth grading. I have a lot of coins, but very few valuable enough to grade. Anyway, I came across this half dollar in a coin book, and saw a Red Book value of $66,000. And then it dawned on me, I had been looking for a Seated dollar coin, not a half dollar. I had mis-remembered the denomination of the coin, and the only pictures I had were close-ups of the date and mint mark. It turns out that if I had consulted the Red Book, I would have realized that there was no 1878-S Seated dollar and likely realized my error. I know it sounds stupid, but I never looked at the book, because I wasn't looking to acquire or value something, I was just looking for the lost coin.

Anyway, here it is. 11.6 grams, 30.5 mm in diameter. A real one would be 12.5g and 30mm. I believe it is silver plated CN. It doesn't pass the ring test, and it sounds lower in conductivity on my metal detector than other like coins.

1878-S-Seated-Half---Counterfeit.
1878-S-Seated-Half---Counterfeit.

It looks like it may have been held in a clamp or vise at one time.
1878-S-Seated-Half---Counterfeit.
1878-S-Seated-Half---Counterfeit.

1878-S-Seated-Half---Counterfeit.

If you compare it to these photos from Coinfacts, you'll see that the S should be further to the left.
1878-S-Seated-Half---Counterfeit.


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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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36558 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Obvious fake. This looks like the type coming out of China.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 11/23/2018  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good backstory.
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SilverDollar2017's Avatar
United States
8715 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, but this one is a Chinese fake.
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Joe2007's Avatar
United States
3843 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joe2007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is always interesting to study counterfeits. Notice the very poor strike on the obverse, the mushy surface of the coin, unusual toning, and the lack of crisp detail in many areas.
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Mark1959's Avatar
7234 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely a cast (fake) - see the small black dots that look like pepper? casting bubbles. The filled part of the Mint Mark is from sand sticking in the mold. Rough textured surface on the devices is a dead give a way as a casting.
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Mark1959's Avatar
7234 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sorry, but this one is a Chinese fake.


What exactly are you seeing that makes you say this counterfiet is from China?
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Jadey's Avatar
United States
900 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What I find confusing is that one would counterfeit a $40K coin, and not bother to spend the extra $10 to make it out of 90% silver.

I honestly would not have recognized this as a counterfeit if it weren't so rare. If it didn't have an S, I wouldn't have likely noticed. The fact that it had an S mint mark makes you say "it's too good to be true", and you investigate to find that it is too good to be true.
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Jadey's Avatar
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900 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2018  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also meant to mention that it has some nice subtle rainbow toning around the outer rim of the coin, moreso on the reverse. That does not come through in the images.

The reverse of the coin actually looks very pleasing without magnification.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2018  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One glance and the 7 just jumped out at me as being wrong.
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NumismaticExpert's Avatar
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2018  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticExpert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very obvious fake. After seeing enough real ones you will be able to identify coins like this as counterfeit instantly.
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