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Trying To Get The Perfect Coin Photo -- Will Full Frame Help Improve?

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Treasureman's Avatar
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15 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2018  08:13 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Treasureman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have been working on trying to get that perfect picture. I currently use a Canon T3i, Canon Macro 105mm, Settings of max iso 400, F4, Auto White Balance, Auto focus engaged, Large file size and high angle lighting. I use a quick background removal tool, and edit in Corel Photopaint Pro.

Problems I am trying to overcome is proper color, edge blur, and reflection reduction. There appears to be a level of grain which prohibits clear pictures of small details.

Will a full frame Canon (e.g. 6D) help improve.Any advice appreciated.
Trying-To-Get-The-Perfect-Coin-Photo-----Will-Full-Frame-Help-Improve?
Trying-To-Get-The-Perfect-Coin-Photo-----Will-Full-Frame-Help-Improve?
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silverwolf's Avatar
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 Posted 11/25/2018  12:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
very nice photo.
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BadDog's Avatar
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 Posted 11/25/2018  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


I'm sure others will have opinions as well, but I don't believe switching to a full frame camera will help you out. If you haven't already done so, I'd try changing the camera settings and lighting first.

Color issues are typically related to white balance and lighting. Have you tried a manual white balance setting using an 18% gray card?

F4 also seems a bit low to me. Most lenses are optimized around the F6.3-F8 range. Closing the aperture to this range may help with your edge blur.

The only thing I know that you can do to reduce reflections is to eliminate the source of the reflections. Try to make everything in your setup black so that extraneous light is being absorbed instead of being reflected to the lens.

Also, if your purpose is to view the photos on a computer monitor, then you have to keep in mind that the quality and settings of the monitor play a big role in what you see as well.

Having said this, to my eyes those photos look pretty good to me on my monitor. Might be a bit out of focus (top to bottom on the obv and left to right on the rev) or it might just be me. If you haven't tried manual focus then you might want to give that a try as well. I've found that with my Pentax camera in autofocus that things aren't always quite in focus (even though autofocus is telling me they are) and I sometimes have to switch to manual focus. This could also be because your depth of field is more limited at F4.
Edited by BadDog
11/25/2018 12:11 pm
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 Posted 11/25/2018  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great post Treasureman! You have a great start and the pic generally looks pretty good. But of course there are areas to improve.

First thing I notice is that the coin is not flat vs the camera. Are you intentionally tilting the coin in order to get the lighting you want? If so, then there are other ways to help with the flatness problem. Let us know what you're doing here.

Next thing based on what you've said is that using Auto White Balance is a big NO. Every shot will be a different color, so that's the first settings change I'd recommend. What kind of lighting are you using?

Autofocus is also a big NO in coin photography. The camera will focus on different areas of the coin and make focusing very inconsistent. It's always best to critically-focus on a consistent detail, so your shots are all the same. I can explain how to do this if you want.

Do you use Live View? This is super critical to get sharp shots, and for critical focusing. Also, do you tether to the computer? This is not as critical but does make things so much easier.

My preferred background is black rather than white, and this also makes it easier to eliminate any removal tools which can cause problems with the edge of the coin. If you want to go down this path I can explain how to do it.

I assume by "reflection reduction" you mean reducing the highlights due to light reflections off the coin surfaces? This is achieved by increasing diffusion. Again, I can explain how to accomplish this if you like.

And finally, regarding your original question about going FF, the answer is: No, it won't help, and in some ways it will make things more difficult. Better to figure out how to make your current setup perform at its best. I've been doing coin photography for many years, and have tested several FF cameras for possible use, but none did a better job than my T2i.





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Keith67's Avatar
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6566 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2018  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Keith67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good to me
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Treasureman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/25/2018  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Treasureman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rmpsrpms and BadDog, thanks for the information!! Appreciate any additional help.

I am using live view, but not with a computer.
Currently using a color adjustable led light above the lens, set at 5000k. Have on order 3 led lights with gooseneck flexibility that I will be trying.
I will need to try the black background.
I did order a 18% grey sheet. Will try that when it comes in.
I must have had a slight angle when I shot the photo, was trying to be right on top of the coin.
Not sure what I need to do to increase diffusion.

Everyone THANKS for the advice on the Full Frame! No need to spend money if not needed.


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BadDog's Avatar
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1375 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2018  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Treasureman,

My Pentax camera doesn't have live view or tethering capability, but just about everyone who uses a Canon camera swears by the tethering capability. If you have a laptop, or can get your setup close enough to a desktop, computer then it's probably something you should try.

Is the LED lamp a linear source or a point source? Point source is better and the typical advice is to use 2 of them at the 10 and 2 o'clock positions, but you really just have to experiment with lighting and it will vary with different coins. The temperature isn't that critical as you compensate for that with white balance and 5000k is just fine. When you use multiple lights then they should be the same temperature for the best white balance.

Are you using a copy stand or a tripod for your shots? Either can work (personally I use a homemade wooden copy stand), but you want to be sure that the coin is parallel to the camera's sensor. A decent bubble level can help you out with that.

To diffuse the lights you'll need to put a translucent material between the light and the coin. How you do that will depend on your lights, but there are generally two methods. Put the material directly over the light or put the material between the light and the coin and shine the light through it. Folks have tried various things for the translucent material including milk jugs, ping pong balls, Canson Opalux sheets, tissue paper (watch the heat of lights!), muslin cloth, etc. Quite a few folks use the Opalux cut and shaped in various fashions.

I agree with Ray (rmpsrpms) that a black background is better than a white background. Personally, I use an 18% gray card background as that lets me easily adjust white balance in post processing of the RAW file. You didn't say whether you're shooting in JPG or RAW format. There are advantages and disadvantages to both and I'd recommend you try both to see which you prefer.

Ray's been at this a long time and has given many of us (including myself) very valuable advice. I highly recommend trying anything he suggests.
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ngs428's Avatar
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 Posted 11/25/2018  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ngs428 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rmpsrpms (Ray) and BadDog are spot on here. One thing Ray will mention is coin rotation. Make sure the wording on the coin is horizontal. Once you get the other things down, that part will be easy.

I do recommend a copy stand, using the 18% grey card and tethering with Live View to a remote PC. Take a look at the $400 setup thread to learn a whole bunch.
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 Posted 11/26/2018  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Treasureman...your adjustable color light sounds interesting. If you can adjust it to 3200K, you can use the tungsten white balance setting.

Are you hand-holding the camera? If so you will get the biggest benefit from a copy stand. This will hold the camera steady and flat vs the coin.

Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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austrokiwi's Avatar
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 Posted 11/27/2018  05:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use full frame and M4/3. Full frame is challenging to use. As to whether full frame photos are better it depends on your purposes. If you are just posting online, then don't bother. I use a Sony A7rII for full frame shots and I only use it for large poster style pictures and hi-resolution projection images. If you posting online. then actually an M4/3 camera can perform better than APSC. However, there is a but. That but is. I find the macro lenses for M/3rd just not good enough. MY best lens for macro shots is an SK 45/2.8 enlarger lens. Mounted the usual way ( not reversed) with a little extension as possible I can produce great shots. Those shots are less than half sized. In my experience 1-1 is useless for coins on an M4/3 camera, half size magnification is actually the best. Of course, going in that direction will cost you for the camera, the lens and the supporting equipment. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket spend it on coins and stick with what you have.

Edit: some M4/3 camera manufacturers have been known to disingenuously advertise their macro lenses as 1-1 when in fact they are 2-1 ( have I got the order correct?) I mean half sized. They use the crop factor to make that claim. On an m4/3 camera, a 45mm lens gives the same field of view as a 90mm lens on a full frame camera
Edited by austrokiwi
11/28/2018 12:27 am
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 Posted 11/27/2018  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, for the same reason APS-C is better for coins than FF, M4/3 is better than APS-C...lower magnification. You can also mount pretty much any lens to a M4/3 camera, so they can be a great choice for coins.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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austrokiwi's Avatar
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 Posted 11/28/2018  02:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is one other factor that recommends some M4/3 cameras. But it is really best for those who want to do more than just produce images for online display. Some of the higher end Olympus offerings have focus stacking, which Olympus calls focus bracketing. It is fairly easy to use, however, I think it is more helpful to people who have tried other focus stacking methods first. Also, you are limited to Native AF M4/3 macro lenses. I believe having tried other techniques first gives you a better feel for what is going on. The Olympus focus bracketing occurs all in Camera so there are few if any options for editing the stack( in comparison to using Zerene Stacker).
Edited by austrokiwi
11/28/2018 03:01 am
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 Posted 11/28/2018  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are folks who swear by the Oly focus stacking capability. Only drawback I see is it's limited to the max magnification of the native macro lens. I've heard of some folks using microscope objectives in front of the lens to do higher magnifications, but am not sure how successful they've been. Certainly for walkaround macro, or perhaps shooting ancients with deep relief, the in-camera stacking method would be useful.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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