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How Price Of Silver Affects Coins Value

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MikeF's Avatar
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 Posted 01/11/2019  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! Thanks for that analysis Tdziemia! I always prefer data over assumptions. My assumption from the Seated dollar series that I collect, has been that common dates(I say common but we all know common Seated dollar dates are still scarce) during the 09 - 13 timeframe seemed inflated and have since corrected to the downside
I don't know if I'm correct but I have viewed thousands of Seated dollars since getting back into the game 2-3 years ago and have looked at the auction history of all common date sld's 100's of times. I have come to the conclusion, perhaps incorrectly, that prices spiked during that period and have corrected over the last five years.

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Pauldog's Avatar
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 Posted 01/12/2019  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pauldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"prices spiked during that period and have corrected over the last five years"

Both coin and bullion prices went down more or less together, then?

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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 01/12/2019  07:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I always prefer data over assumptions.


Me too. That analysis contained about 300 auction results for each coin. The median price could be thought of as the most probable price you'd get if you sold a coin of the given grade. But there was a lot of overlap in sale prices between the "low/medium/high" bullion periods, and as can be seen, the sale price moves less (in percentage terms) than the bullion price for the lower priced coin. These two factors mean that if I were selling, I wouldn't worry about the bullion price.

It would take a lot more similar analyses to be confident in the conclusion.







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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 01/12/2019  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@MikeF, I took a look at the two SLDs with the highest population in that database: 1871 and 1860-S.
My analyses for the low, medium and high bullion periods I used earlier agrees with your conclusions. I also went back a bit in time before the "spike" in silver prices, picking a period that was comparable in silver price to the more recent "low" period. The dynamics at the two price points are a little different

For the 1871 I looked at XF40-45:
Low bullion (5/17 to 5/18), median selling price was $444
Med bullion (7/13 to 7/14), median selling price $505
High bullion (2/11 to 4/12), median selling price $518
Low Bullion (1/08 to 6/10), median selling price $374
This coin at this grade looks like it moved in tandem with the upswing in silver price, then dropped back down. The 2008-2010 number is depressed a bit by a handful of NGS graded coins that all fell at the low end ($250-350). Without them, the median would be more like $400

For the 1860-S there are more higher graded coins in the database, so I looked at MS62:
Low bullion (5/17 to 5/18), median selling price $1870
Med bullion (7/13 to 7/14), median selling price $2230
HIgh bullion (2/11 to 4/12), median selling price $2300
Low bullion (1/08 to 6/10), median selling price $2300
So, this higher value coin took off when Silver passed about $10/oz, plateaued for about 6 years regardless of silver price, then dropped recently.

That's still only 4 coin/grade combinations, but suggests the picture is much more complicated than "low value coins move with bullion price and higher value coins don't."
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Pauldog's Avatar
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 Posted 01/13/2019  01:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pauldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You have three variables - price of silver, demand for a particular coin, and price of that coin. If the demand stays level for an expensive coin, the price of silver doesn't make nearly as much difference (as a % price increase) as it does for a coin priced much closer to its melt value.

This also reminds me of Aaron Brown's book "Red-Blooded Risk," where he talks a lot about the numeraire you use, which is more or less your unit of measurement of value. You can measure the value of a coin relative to the value of its precious metal content, or relative to its face value, or in dollars (or other currency), or relative to the price of another commodity, or relative to the price of another coin, just to name a few.

If I thought that a coin was priced very high relative to its silver content, and I expected silver to spike before too long, and didn't think the coin would go up much from that, it would make sense financially to trade it for bullion.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 01/13/2019  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely agree that coins selling more on "numismatic value" will have price moving due to supply-demand balance.

There is also the annoying possibility (from an analysis viewpoint) that increased bullion price also increases demand ... which is what perhaps happened during the last bubble.

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MikeF's Avatar
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 Posted 01/16/2019  03:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@MikeF, I took a look at the two SLDs with the highest population in that database: 1871 and 1860-S.
My analyses for the low, medium and high bullion periods I used earlier agrees with your conclusions. I also went back a bit in time before the "spike" in silver prices, picking a period that was comparable in silver price to the more recent "low" period. The dynamics at the two price points are a little different


Thanks for doing all of this tdziemia! I would have totally missed out on your analysis had I not remembered this post and your exception research.
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