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1970 LMC DDO? RPM? Small Date Over Large Date? Machining?

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Valued Member

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 Posted 03/11/2019  6:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***

Curious what you guys think of this.

1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
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coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Machine doubling. Note: All the areas you are looking at is flat. A doubled die has raised doubling. When you look at the edges of the devices, that is where you find Machine Doubling.
On a doubled die, you look in the centers to see the doubling:
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
Not on the edges of the devices.
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 Posted 03/11/2019  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On this one, it has layering going on. It's stamped, the bottom numbers are raised and not flat on the surface and are rotated counterclockwise by a degree, then it is stamped again producing the stamp at 0 degrees. I don't understand Machine Doubling. Is it being struck once and the die has a smear and then stamped again to produce this look?

1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
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 Posted 03/11/2019  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me, it looks like a small date stamped on a large date.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 03/11/2019  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nope. It is a normal large date that has Machine Doubling on it. The 9 is different on the large and small date:
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
Note the inside curve of the '9'. Yours does not has the small date '9'. It is a normal large date with Machine Doubling.
Did you read any of what I posted before?
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 Posted 03/11/2019  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea I did. I find it interesting cause the images you showed that are DDO look like Machine Doubling too lol the bottom layer is more flat than the top.

What do you think of this? The D in god looks like a lot of the double dies I've seen in lettering.

1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?

This is the date

1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining? This looks like machining to me. But the lettering looks more like the stuff I seen in other DDO's.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 03/11/2019  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a good example of Machine Doubling.
Errers and Varietys.
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 Posted 03/11/2019  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll add another 72 and see what you think. ;)
I see nothing special in the date. But "In God We" has doubling.

1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 03/11/2019  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1972 D shows very common Master Die Doubling, which adds no premium. Technically a Doubled Die, but a worthless one. http://www.lincolncentforum.com/197...ie-doubling/
Errers and Varietys.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 03/11/2019  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You have more Machine Doubling on the tops of the date. (again on the edges of the devices) On the IN GOD you have what is called as master die doubling.
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
The master die created doubled hubs and the the dies show the same master doubling on them.
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
Note on this chart the progression of die creation. Note the Master die on the second level? It shows that two of these are made. Then it goes down to the working hubs. of the two master dies created, one of them had doubling on it. All working dies will have that same doubling from that master die, all working hub from that master die will have the same doubling and the working die will all have the same doubling as the master die. So 50% of the cents that year from all three mints will have the same doubling. Thus while this a doubling is it so common there is not premium for this. But the other master die didn't have doubling on them, creating normal working hubs, creating working dies. Some of these working dies had hub doubling on them we call them doubled dies. How can you tell is your coin has hub doubling? Note the '9' on the date:
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
See the white arrows? This is what I discovered is your first clue that you have a doubled die. Note the strange curve in that area? That is your first clue. Note the normal and the master die doubling '9's as well on this image. (Click on it and enlarge it even bigger)
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Tanman2001's Avatar
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 Posted 03/11/2019  8:12 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The doubling on IGWT is the master die doubling (listed as re-engraved die by CONECA) and a majority of 1972 cent have that doubling. The doubling on the date and face is Machine Doubling. It is extremely strong MD and that can be deceiving, but notice how the numbers have decreased in size rather than increased like a DDO should.
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 Posted 03/23/2019  11:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PilcrowsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Coop for the in depth on this. So crazy though. I've seen a lot of coins showing stuff like these pictures. I been looking for stuff like the 1972-P-1DO-001. I think I'm a bigger fan of Machine Doubling now lol I think it looks better really unless you get a strong double die like the 001.

Out of the 10s of thousands of coins I've looked through.. these Machine Doubling coins should carry a little better premium I think. I very rarely see it. Actually this 70 and the 72 I posted are the only two I've seen that show it this strong.

1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
1970-LMC-DDO?-RPM?-Small-Date-Over-Large-Date?-Machining?
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