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 Replies: 50 / Views: 4,145 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
But I bought TPG, I thought that protected meBuying from the reputable TPG's (ngc, anacs and pcgs) DOES protect them (grade/authenticity guarantee). Buying from the other TPG's is essentially buying raw. I have a fairly decent knowledge of the coins I've collected, yet for any purchases of over a couple of hundred dollars I want them slabbed. Learning to grade for myself has ensured that nothing 'over-graded' has managed it's way unnoticed into my collection.......in fact, most are high end for the grade and a few are under-graded. News flash: Coins are not an investment.That we'll agree upon. Man, I remember the days before the services started. How many people bought sliders as ms coins. The internet wasn't around then either, and communities like this didn't exist. Knowledge was gained when you tried to sell........and found out what you really had. 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1130 Posts |
Quote:
I didn't miss the grade. I downgraded an ugly F to VG, just like the real grading books taught me That's the problem with books, it's all a fixed value with no leeway for human logic. The book didn't tell you to compensate for a weak strike. How would you grade an uncirculated 1922-D Plain ? The letters are mushy, Lincoln's features are weak... you'll grade that a VF ? How do you grade a coin with great PQ but technically not as sharp. Going by a book alone is not the answer. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
If you don't go by the standards, there's no point in having standards.
Large eggs have a certain weight range. Exceptionally clean Mediums or lopsided Extra Large still aren't allowed to be sold as Large.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
While you may be able to convince me that the TPG's serve some purpose in authentication of certian coins to help protect new collectors and even seasoned collectors from making mistakes on some of the Key dates and varieties . It is coins like this that cause me to suspect the TPG's even those considered to be top tier . take a look at the cheek definitely a prime focal area on the Jefferson nickels .  and take a look at the grade ,, now I know that PCGS offers a grade guarantee but exactly how can they justify this coin even being in this slab with this grade ?  this is where I have my problem with the TPG's . |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
TPGs are not perfect and inconsistent grading is a common concern, but for every one they mess up, how many did they get right ? How many beginners and novices (myself included) would have been better off buying certified coins from the top TPGs instead of buying cleaned/altered/overhyped/overgraded raw coins on ebay ? |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Not enough to justify the added cost. I forget the exact details, but there was a seriously overgraded six figure silver dollar, population 1 in the grade. It had a greysheet bid price of about $20,000 higher than the Bluesheeet no-peek price. The owner tried to get Bluesheet bid, but when the bidder saw what a POS it was, he refused to honor his bid, so the seller had it up for another $20,000 less. Someone is going to have to explain to me what protection you have when no-peek prices aren't honored (the whole reason slobbed coins are supposedly better) and when a TPG graded coin is a hard sell at $40,000 under what a properly graded coin would bring. It defeats the purpose of TPG when you need someone who knows what they're doing, like Rick Snow, to regrade everything properly and sell it accordingly. |
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
I have to say, even with market grading, I think this is a very nice F12, but a stretch as a VF. There's just not enough horn showing. Fredd is undergrading, IMO, by saying it is VG as this coin has more detail than a VG and LIBERTY is not merged with the rim. I think this is a very nice VF, helped somewhat by the dark spots but those are common in this grade range.
The market grading debate will always be there. I will say I think it is even more of an issue with WL Halves (the other series I collect), which have one set of grades for coins 1929 and before and another for those produced later.
Regardless of the assigned grade, enjoy the coin. It's a nice one.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
The only reason you see that "more detail" is the black crud. Unless you're putting a set of black crud nickels together, why wouldn't you downgrade a coin with it? You'd certaily downgrade a Buffalo with that purple color from being buried, wouldn't you?
Walkers used to change to full strikes at 1921. Have they expanded that to 1929 now?
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
I agree that TPG's are overgrading some coins, and in some cases even slabbing cleaned coins (PCGS and NGC, as well as ANACS prob-free). However, I do actually think that weak strikes should be taken into account. 'Mint State' means no trace of wear, not 'the appearance of weak detail brought on by a weak strike. Though of course, strong strikes should bring much better premiums. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
I also would have trouble seeing this as a VF, though.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
974 Posts |
Doing some poking around. I found these photos of a MS63 ($8400) Image:  26s.jpg and a VF30 ($480) Image: 1926s_5c_30_474.jpg of this coin. It does appear to have an inherited weak strike. I, personally, wouldn't purchase a weak strike coin just because I like the details.  However, if I was going to buy one I would hold out for one with more details even though it may cost more.  In my mind, this would assist with it being less subjective to grading and trying to distinguish between wear versus weak strike...the combo makes this difficult in my eyes to ensure I am getting what I am paying for.  1sikevo, if you like the coin you bought that's all that really matters. From looking at other examples, the consensus is this is VF but it sure fooled the lot of us! Congratz!  Now to start digging around in coin cases in my area to find a VF graded by the shop as VG - F!  Edited by Nelrak
08/28/2008 12:53 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
The difference is I see a full horn in this example. I don't see a full horn on the original, even with the aid of the crud, which should downgrade the coin even further.
Anyone else remember the Black Beauty 1958P nickels?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
974 Posts |
Edited by Nelrak
08/28/2008 02:05 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Tha's what, maybe a $10 coin legitimately? I've had handsful of them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Fred the Black Beauties come in several different years .   |
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Replies: 50 / Views: 4,145 |
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Posted 08/20/2008 10:01 pm
26s.jpg
1926s_5c_30_474.jpg
