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 Replies: 73 / Views: 10,669 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5246 Posts |
I recall from another thread that SPP informed us that colour is NOT a reliable means to determine whether it is brass or copper.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
No, color IS NOT a reliable means to say if it's brass. Any number of common household cleaners will turn bronze into a nice yellow. I'm saying that that USED TO BE the way that it was done. For our study, I included about 5% of the 600 or so things to XRF that were "yellow" and not a single one was brass.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1352 Posts |
Out of the four shown in the Heritage archives, I see three different reverse dies. The pictures of Sid's do not have the resolution to tell the die.
One of the Heritage coins may be the same reverse die as mine, but I can't be certain.
I would first XRF yours. If it is something like 10%, or more, zinc, then send it to PCGS.
Edited by bosox
04/22/2019 6:34 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
50 Posts |
While I agree that a specific Gravity test is not accurate enough to discern the precise composition of the coin it would suffice to see if the brass coin varies more significantly than say a dozen bronze 1859 cents to each other. However, the XRF test is unquestionably the first and best option. I would guess from the photo that the probability is a coin flip given that apparently many yellow coins did not turn out to be brass however, you may have something so the time and expense of getting an XRF test done to the coin is well worth it.
Edited by Sid Belzberg
04/22/2019 7:17 pm
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Valued Member
 Canada
235 Posts |
(as an aside, being accused of Snarkism by someone who does NOT know me: I was asked if I may eMail someone on this thread; it was tried and various excuses, one being about Bothering People, were given why that would not be possible)
Color isn't an indication of alloy-especially the Brasses, but this coin has a yellowish edge. Out of the hundreds of 1859 cents I've looked at, this is the only one. I had to guess that it was such, because it was in a PCGS (AU58 Gold Shield) holder. There is a local PolyTech college near me; they're looking to see if they have a machine to do this. IF I had to guess, I'd say that there is more white metal in the planchet than is normally found. How much determines what is a Brass 1859 Cent is what I'm looking for. Also: this coin is veryclose to Mint State, so transgressions, if any, would be easy to see
Edited by whatdowehavehere
04/22/2019 7:52 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
235 Posts |
"Out of the four shown in the Heritage archives, I see three different reverse dies. The pictures of Sid's do not have the resolution to tell the die.
One of the Heritage coins may be the same reverse die as mine, but I can't be certain."
Sid kindly informed us that his coin has the same diebreak. The others I see on Heritage's site are:
1/7-8/2018:3061:#32143 AU details
4/7-10/2017:3054:#30392 PCGS VF20
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Which part of the country are you located ?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1352 Posts |
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1352 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
There is a person on this site who normally does XRF's for free if it is sent to him and rarities are his specialty. Once you make a few more posts on here (I forget the number needed), then you will be able to send PM's to whoever you want.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1352 Posts |
Also, there are quite a few other threads from collectors who wondered if they had a brass cent. Search the CCF Canadian variety forum for "1859 brass". You should find some threads on point. Again, good luck.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
If this is a slight variation in alloy why would this ever be considered a great modern numismatic discovery? Especially if it can't be seen or really pinned down as to what happened?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
Alan, I have asked the same question for years. On point is the early 1980's 5 cents which were also a result of a mixing error. I was able to identify this with the immense assistance of our own SPP. The 5 cents discovery received a luke warm reception at best. Logic and or common sense means little in numismatics.......LOL
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
It's really not a "slight variation" in the alloy. There is 10-20X as much zinc in the alloy than what is normal for the bronze planchetts ... and 1/5 the amount of tin that's normally found in bronze and it's now classified as brass. The so-called "brass" cent has been documented and talked about for decades with most folks thinking that the brass was done on purpose as a test, specimen, or trial piece. Things that have gathered written comments for decades seem to increase in value, even though they are not rare or even scarce. Walk into any coin show and look around for '59 DP#1's, or '48 dollars, or '58 large cents ... all carry a huge premium but none are actually even scarce .. the bourse is full of them.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5395 Posts |
I am with Alan and Nicklesguy on the subject of the so called 1859 Brass Cents . Slight differences in alloy mix can happen.
I will put this in the same bracket as Date spacing varieties . MOST people really do not care .
As to alloy mix , I am sure that given access to an XRF machine , one could sit and go through , let's say a bag
of 1957 silver dollars and find the millesimal fineness to vary up to maybe 3 or 4 per cent .
Or how about discovering let's say an 800 Fine 1968 25 Cents or a Sterling silver 1920 Fifty Cents .
XRF machines certainly give us the ability to do that . Way more fun ( albeit expensive ) than Roll searching!
I for one could find way better ways to spend 15 to 20 thousand numismatically on a coin with a slight alloy variation.
Edited by Pacificoin
04/23/2019 10:50 am
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Replies: 73 / Views: 10,669 |
First Page
Posted 04/22/2019 5:49 pm
