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 Replies: 14 / Views: 4,031 |
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Moderator
 United States
34428 Posts |
I've think that I have gone about as far as I can with attributing this little late Roman bronze. As you can see below, it is in pretty rough condition (as might be expected). However, I can clearly see the roughly N-shaped monogram on the back with a letter S halfway through the diagonal crossbar. I had picked up this coin thinking it to be Aelia Zenonis, but am less sure now. My specific concern is that the monogram on this coin appears to have a looped letter on top of the left upright. As I now know, Zenonis' monogram had a letter Z on the left upright and an O on the right upright. I do see over on a FORVM thread that Nepos' monogram might be a better fit as it is similarly N-shaped with a bisecting S; however, it has the loop of a P on the left upright and an O on the right upright. For quick reference, I'm looking at RIC 1018 for Zenonis and RIC X 3222 for Nepos. The diameter is 9 mm and the weight is 0.5 g. I know that there aren't tons of comps for coins from either of these folks, but it seems like the few Zenonis bronzes I can find on the interwebs are typically closer to 1 gram and perhaps best described as AE4s. On the other hand, if I squint when I look at the obv, the last two digits of the inscription look vaguely like ON. I'm interested in your thoughts and expertise as to what coin I actually have here. Thank you in advance for your guidance!   Added: As I continue to ponder what I have, I see that some auction houses show the Zenonis monogram upside down compared to how I have it oriented. Then the loops are at the bottom of the uprights.  "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
08/17/2019 4:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5177 Posts |
Quote:
On the other hand, if I squint when I look at the obv, the last two digits of the inscription look vaguely like ON. I personally quite clearly read NON on the obverse photo, even without much squinting! Which is actually a bit worrying, because all the Zenonis AE4s with legend that I could find online go AZEN-ONIS, and shouldn't have NON on the left side on the portrait. If I squint more I can kind of turn the NON into IVLN, which a Julius Nepos coin is supposed to have here, but at this point it's grasping at straws. This urgently needs a better obverse photo, or better yet, a rubbing (probably of the monogram too). Just be careful with the pencil! EDIT: random unrelated thought - I wonder what the triangular heck possessed the auction house to label this coin as Julius Nepos when it's a perfect fit to the Anastasius monogram and is nothing like the supposed Julius Nepos one. I'm guessing that the bidders knew that, which is why it sold below estimate... EDIT 2: even more unrelated - anyone knows what's going on with the third monogram example on this page, labeled as "Leo I"? The two sides fit each other, so it's clearly the same coin, but the monogram looks suspiciously like Leontius, and the legend doesn't look much like either. EDIT 3: oh, right, it's an exact legend match to specimen 4 in the July 2009 Celator article, so the legend ends [xx]NASMAI, where the [xx] does not contain any of L, E, O (but can be almost anything else). That article tentatively guessed Anastasius, apparently because its author couldn't think of anything better; that said, if I had to guess from the NGC specimen, I'd say [VERI]NA /some abbreviation that comes out to SMAI/, which would conveniently explain the Leo-ish monogram. (I don't know enough Latin to take a guess at the abbreviation.) Edited by january1may
08/17/2019 7:47 pm
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Moderator
 United States
34428 Posts |
Ok thanks for the input @j1m. I'm not sure that I'm capable of better pics with my current set-up. Below I've tried to lay out what I am seeing of the monogram (red) and wreath (blue) with the coin in hand. I can also try a tracing as you suggest.  Added: here is a link to a prior auction of this coin (second from the bottom): https://www.coinarchives.com/a/resu...arch=Zenonis"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
08/17/2019 7:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5177 Posts |
Quote:
Added: here is a link to a prior auction of this coin (second from the bottom) ...Huh, their pics are worse than yours. It must have a really inconvenient patina. That said, I can see from their pic where they were going from - it might be the right support that has a Z, which would fit several of the monograms in the same link. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
I was actually doing some research last night for a potential purchase, and came across the rather disturbing accusation that Emporium Hamburg has been selling large numbers of fake AE4's of the terminal empire. I sincerely hope this is the genuine article, but I would certainly get some expert opinions before your window to open a claim expires. I would perhaps also give it an acetone bath to ensure the patina doesn't wash off.
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Moderator
United States
34428 Posts |
Ok thanks @finn!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
United States
34428 Posts |
I have an unfortunate update on this coin. As you can see from the pics below, the coin was wrapped in some sort of plastic patina which has started to come off in an acetone bath. The edges look like they were sanded down yesterday. It seems like the details were also largely "drawn" with this same material.  Oddly, I purchased this coin from Muenzhandel Andreas Fenzi, for which I hadn't heard of any previous sales of fakes. It wasn't until I dug around the internet looking for provenance on the coin that I discovered the previous sale by Emporium Hamburg. Wish me luck as I seek a refund for this fake!   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Wow. Good luck, Dave. Keep the board updated.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts |
Gad zooks !
I have bathed many a coin in acetone and uncovered the rare plugged hole (well disguised)
and even found a Caligula bronze with green paint sprayed over an electrocuted provincial
But never have I seen an entire coin go the way of an Alka Seltzer tablet
It almost looks like some sort of mold was used and paste applied to a corroded bronze mini to leave the details you were attempting to interpret
They have probably managed to fool more than a few "experts" as most people are reluctant to do much to these tiny coins beyond cradling them in the palm and carefully placing them back into a tray or flip
Acetone is the ancient collectors best friend
Harmless to an 'honest' surface
But brutal to the arts of deception
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
2752 Posts |
Ouch! Sorry to hear this Spence....I've never seen anything like this before! Good one on Finn spotting this one though  Hope it all works out well...Paul |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Sorry to hear how this turned out. I was really hoping I was wrong on this one  |
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Moderator
United States
34428 Posts |
Me too! But a good lesson to learn.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
United States
34428 Posts |
For those who were wondering, here is an update. After four or five decreasingly cordial emails, some of which cc:ed ma-shops customer service department, I got a full refund from Fenzi yesterday. Here are a couple lessons that I have learned from this experience:
1. Ancients should be given a bath in acetone when received.
2. Emporium Hamburg is either actively manufacturing fakes or at the very least trafficking in them.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
2752 Posts |
Excellent Spence I'm glad you got a refund....
I´m still quite shocked by what I've seen in this thread so thanks for bringing it to our attention...Paul
Edited by Palouche
09/19/2019 05:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Glad you got your refund!
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Replies: 14 / Views: 4,031 |
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Posted 08/17/2019 7:20 pm
