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Is The Popularity Of Toned Coins Beginning To Fade?

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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2019  7:48 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've always loved my coins to be as close to "as minted" as possible. A few years ago, 5-6 perhaps, I began sending my good toned coins to NGC, and PCGS. PCGS got pre-1840 coins and NGC got the rest.

I had a pretty good record of 246 coins that hit my opinion exactly, 41 better than I expected, and 18 that didn't hit what I thought it would. I only got nicked 4 times for improper cleaning, and once for damage.

The whole purpose of doing so was to sell the toned and buy nice coins, already graded, with NO INDICATION of dipping or cleaning, but that were close to "as minted".

I did well. Toned coins, especially bullseye, sold for many times what I anticipated. I was able to find and purchase nice red, white, and gold coins with original luster.

Lately this has changed. I have to fight harder for as minted issues, especially at auction and they seem to be harder to find.

At the last two major shows I attended there was color all over the cases. Morgan rainbows appeared common as dirt. While I couldn't find even one nice white 3CSC or H10.

I had to fight like a demented demon to get three coins I could not let escape at auction.

The coins you see in a dealers cases are those they can't sell to their regular clientele or want list customers.

Opinions on toning losing ground?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2019  07:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find just the opposite at coin shows by me. Yes there are toned coin collectors as well as error collectors and variety collectors, etc. However, I find that all those thins are a minority at shows. Mostly by me it appears people just want coins that look like new.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2019  07:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There will always be those who see an easy way to enhance the eye appeal, and thus the saleability of a coin, then try to sell it on ebay.

It is for this reason that I ignore nice rainbow toning, when deciding to buy.

Horrible blotchy toning MAY effect a negative attitude in my decision to buy.
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Ballyhoo's Avatar
United States
1613 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2019  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Myself, I like toned coins. Original, "old" look which only time could exhibit. In the past I would pay a small premium over an otherwise normal mint state, but for the moment I continue to hold off until the fad passes and these scrupulous coin doctors go away.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2019  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In general I wouldn't use Morgans as a bench mark for anything. Aside from the right color patterns that bring tremendous premiums pretty much everything about Morgans is common including ones with ho hum toning that a lot of sellers try and pass off as rainbow toned etc.

The right toning, especially on high grades are bringing record prices so I wouldn't say the demand or love of them is fading at all. This type of popularity had lead many dealers to ask for premiums that are beyond what their toned coins would likely sell for which causes them to sit.

You had also mentioned it was a major show and generally at those dealers bring some of their if not all of their better stuff. Those shows are expensive to set up at and they need some good sales to cover the costs much less make money. If nothing else they need some eye candy to get people to stop at their table as opposed to the other 100 plus tables in the room.

It's also possible that a number of those coins traded hands at the show. Every dealer has different type customer bases back home and not all of them really take advantage of the internet. Legend can sell 6 and 7 figure coins much easier than most others can, Rick Snow can sell Indian cents easier than many others can, not every dealer has a customer base for toned coins just as they don't necessarily have a customer base or reputation for certain other types. In those cases they generally either send them to auction, bring them to a show, and/or sell them to other dealers who do.

I would also say than aside from high end collectors and collectors of truly scare things dealer want lists are becoming a thing of the past. With the explosion of the internet and multiple auction companies most collectors aren't giving their local dealer a want list or working with just one dealer especially when it comes to coins of lower value.

If anything I would say the presence of color all over is just evidence that toned coins are just as popular if not more popular than ever. If they weren't many of those coins would get dipped out so they could be sold easier.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Lately this has changed. I have to fight harder for as minted issues, especially at auction and they seem to be harder to find.

I wonder why.


Quote:
At the last two major shows I attended there was color all over the cases. Morgan rainbows appeared common as dirt. While I couldn't find even one nice white 3CSC or H10.

This may explain why. It may be at all those missing white coins are now still there, but now with color.
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GrapeCollects's Avatar
United States
8938 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't know. I'm very particular with toning, either russet browns, reds, and golds, or a toner that covers the complete surfaces in a swirl of color. I do like blast white coins, but the color is just something extra to set your example from the rest.
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United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The worst thing about toned coins is how difficult it is to know for sure they are not just an altered coin. Toning done purposely.
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Big-Kingdom's Avatar
United States
1667 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Big-Kingdom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd say I have a hard time believing a nearing 100 year old coin is "original" and still blast white. For me it's difficult to determine what's dipped and not dipped.

Like toning there's acceptable, and unacceptable I guess, even with blast whites. I'd guess it takes a real professional to know just how far to take it also either way, whether toned or dipped, so it doesn't get detailed.

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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd say I have a hard time believing a nearing 100 year old coin is "original" and still blast white.


There's plenty of them out there. I'll copy a response I had made in a different thread about the same thing.

Morgan bags and hoards that were sealed by the mint are found and opened fairly regularly and there's plenty of completely blast white coins in those bags.

While it's true that some white coins were dipped just because something is blast white doesn't mean it was dipped, just as something being dark doesn't mean it's original. There's no real absolutes for this when it comes to coins. Some coins tone other don't even within the same series.

Just look at some old coin albums. Some coins will be toned maybe even wildly while others will look like they were just put in yesterday.

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yellow88's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2019  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My personal preference aside...

Empirical evidence based on a whole lot of sales on my ebay store of all types of coinage and almost 50% of sales are international show clearly that bright shiny coins (period) sell on average much faster and for a not insignificant premium.

There's a big difference between what people say and what people actually do in reality (especially with their own money). I have found this is the most true with the more "sophisticated", experienced, and affluent buyers as well.

The numbers don't lie.

P.S.- We DO NOT clean any item and if already cleaned we ALWAYS clearly state that fact in the listing. Same thing with any type of artificial toning etc.
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Silver Star's Avatar
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2019  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver Star to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Some coins tone others don't, even within the same series."

Recently bought 67 rolls of Morgan dollars put in a bank box as silver went out of circulation in 1962/1963. The rolls were wrapped in paper dollar wrappers. A few of the rolls produced toned end coins, a toned obverse on the one end and a toned reverse on the other (I totally disagree with others on the CCF forum that all Morgans are "bag toned" and none are toned due to roll wrappers--most toned Morgans I have seen or purchased over last 40 years were stored--and developed toning--because of the paper wrappers, in my opinion). Of course, as others have pointed out, some toning is downright ugly--black, grey--and negatively affects eye appeal and value.

My point here is that toning, at least in dollars, varies a ton, even from roll to roll, series to series.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2019  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
(I totally disagree with others on the CCF forum that all Morgans are "bag toned" and none are toned due to roll wrappers--most toned Morgans I have seen or purchased over last 40 years were stored--and developed toning--because of the paper wrappers, in my opinion)


Agreed. There's without question Morgans that have toned in rolls and other methods than just bags.
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Bump111's Avatar
United States
3323 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2019  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unless silver is properly stored, it will eventually tone. Natural toning is usually ugly to my eye. "Pretty" toning is a happy accident or an intentional act. My personal preference is untoned silver.
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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