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1980 Nickel Dollar Double Die Or Machine Doubling?

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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
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 Posted 09/26/2019  9:47 pm Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This is the 1980 nice dollar, with doubled DOLLAR (Rev-002). Bill Cross always thought this one was a doubled die, and I used to lean toward it being Machine Doubling, but on closer look, the offset, although step-like, does not narrow the devices much, and the doubling has minor notching, shown here in the corner of the L's and bottom of the A. Also the doubling is radial, towards the rim, and not in a uniform linear direction like Machine Doubling tends to do...

Maybe some of our sharp-eyed American collectors can chime in here... since they are more experienced at looking for doubled dies. Your thoughts?

1980-Nickel-Dollar-Double-Die-Or-Machine-Doubling?
1980-Nickel-Dollar-Double-Die-Or-Machine-Doubling?
1980-Nickel-Dollar-Double-Die-Or-Machine-Doubling?
1980-Nickel-Dollar-Double-Die-Or-Machine-Doubling?
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 09/26/2019  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dug out the microscope... and although the photos are not great, I am leaning towards a doubled die.

1980-Nickel-Dollar-Double-Die-Or-Machine-Doubling?
1980-Nickel-Dollar-Double-Die-Or-Machine-Doubling?
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 09/27/2019  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Twelve hours without reply.
I'll give it a go.

The notching and width of letters sure look like DD.
But the shelf like elements look like MD.
Where are this coins clones?
I doubt anyone has searched near as many nickel dollars as yourself.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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 Posted 09/27/2019  10:45 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have about 15 coins, exactly like this one...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 09/27/2019  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian-varieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going with Double Die.
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 Posted 09/27/2019  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i would agree,with doubled die.. the length of the doubling ..ie, your photos it would be hard to believe it was md.
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 Posted 09/28/2019  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a good example how the definition given to Mechanical Doubling is taken too literal and not fully understood by many. I have written an article in 2012 about this and here is the introducing paragraph:

"After reading most articles found on the web concerning doubled die varieties, I have come to the conclusion that some clarification is needed concerning Mechanical Doubling.

Most people identify Mechanical Doubling using the following definition that can be found on Wexler's doubledie.com website; "The primary characteristic of Mechanical Doubling is that the secondary image (doubling) has a flat, shelf-like appearance." The problem I had with this definition is the word "primary". Although it is a characteristic of Mechanical Doubling, it should not be the characteristic used in evaluating this type of doubling. There is another characteristic most people overlook, that should be considered, the location of the apex's edge and the size of the coin's relief."

So SPP, when you have the time, to properly identify the type of doubling, take your microscope out and take a picture of a coin you suspect having doubling and a picture of a coin that does not have doubling. Do not touch the setup such that the pictures are taken in the same angle and same lighting!

Post those pictures and I will demonstrate how to figure out if it is a MDD or WDD.

Edited by numidan
09/28/2019 09:35 am
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