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1874 S Trade Dollar Guaranteed Authenticity.. What Do You Think?

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Bedrock of the Community
Earle42's Avatar
United States
10044 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2019  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
...or you can do things like overlays etc. Coop is the first one who I got this idea from quite some time ago. Getting fakes to see in hand also helps. Determining fakes is not really all that hard - it just takes hands on experience - the more you do, the easier they become to spot.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2019  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Penny smart dollar dumb, but people have free will. If they want to risk their money on their feelings that is their right. I'd rather advise people on how to have the best chance of protecting themselves.
Bedrock of the Community
Earle42's Avatar
United States
10044 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2019  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not feelings - verifiable, observable, and scientific fact as proven by the picture above.

The companies have no special magic. Olympus is not their actual abode. Truly, they are mere mortals like us. Honest.

Speaking of personal will...
Knowing and understanding the term ad hominem can only bring enlightenment when personal preferences and will are pushed aside.
QED
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2019  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The companies have no special magic. Olympus is not their actual abode. Truly, they are mere mortals like us. Honest.


Do you say that to your doctor as well? What about mechanic, construction company, dentist, eye doctor, electrician, plumber etc.?
Valued Member
mrulon's Avatar
United States
303 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2019  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrulon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I understand that this is a controversial topic, and I don't think this coin is one of the coins the agent I spoke to is talking about, but he said he has found very good counterfeits in fake slabs and he has found a couple of coins in TPG graded slabs that were counterfeits he said that they are now using laser measured authentic coins and producing dyes and then stamping on silver planchets. The first ones were only discovered because they all had a very small imperfection in the reverse field. I believe they were morgans.... He said frankly the SS are too busy with current currency counterfeiting to spend a lot of time on collectable coins. Technology may very well be a huge thorn in the side of collecting. My analogy would be if someone gave a doctor a perfect "counterfeit" X-ray to make a determination and then holding them accountable.... I can trust doctors because no one is trying to deceive them. faking coins is deception. That is why I come here for help... it is the best tool I have and I am glad everyone helps
Bedrock of the Community
Earle42's Avatar
United States
10044 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2019  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Keep coming back Mrulon. This site is for sharing and learning. You get people from all walks of life. Some are totally dependent on others for everything, and some enjoy studying to become successfully self sufficient. Being a former teacher, I lived a life of trying to educate my students to be able to stand on their own two feet. People from my generation tend to be this way moreso than modern times.

Whenever I share information, I will give either exact references when asked or else will, like with the diagram above, give repeatable, verifiable proof. As shown above, detecting a counterfeit, most of the time, is something a collector can easily do for themselves using the right tools.

Remember there have been fakes that have fooled absolutely everyone over the years. Also remember "professional" services have slabbed fakes as well (and do their best to make good on it when their error is discovered).

This is why the majority of CCF people hold to the common sense wisdom of "Buy the coin and not the holder."

Just for fun, the "Omega Man" Counterfeits are said to be the best counterfeits ever made (google for a fascinating history). These fakes got by all the experts for quite awhile.

Yet below we ave an Omega 1882 $3.00 coin (see reference for source of original picture) made transparent and overlaid onto a genuine (see included source) 1882 $3.00 gold coin. Note explanation of reference point for aligning was the profile in this case. Note how easy this method makes telling a fake from everything else becoming misaligned.

1874-S-Trade-Dollar-Guaranteed-Authenticity..-What-Do-You-Think?

Here is the same analysis but this time the fake's overlay was aligned using the term "OF" as a reference.

1874-S-Trade-Dollar-Guaranteed-Authenticity..-What-Do-You-Think?

Granted people back in the 70s did not have access to graphics tools that make this easy to do. So no wonder these fakes were not discovered easily. But nowadays identifying them as fakes takes anyone who has a computer, can google to find images, and learns how easy it is to make an overlay with a graphics program. Doing this kind of analysis is well within the grasp of mere mortals.

Welcome to Mount Olympus

BTW - zoom in on these pics to see how bad even the very best fakes are/were made.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Edited by Earle42
10/28/2019 12:28 pm
Valued Member
mrulon's Avatar
United States
303 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2019  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrulon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
very cool I too have been in education for 38 yrs.... middle school teacher then teacher teacher....lol
Bedrock of the Community
Earle42's Avatar
United States
10044 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2019  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I became disabled with POTS so my career was cut short after 20 years. Leaving teaching was akin to me losing an arm or leg. I never worked a day in my life as I loved the profession enough I actually looked forward to Monday mornings - it was all paid vacation spending my time with "my kids" (6th-12th at various times).

I miss my kids, but have many who still keep in touch. My wife and I are "Mom and Dad" as well as "Grandma and Grandpa" to several other-than-blood-relatives.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Valued Member
mrulon's Avatar
United States
303 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2019  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrulon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry to hear about you having to leave the profession I have a sense of what you are going through I have been out of teaching for 2 yrs... health problems most recently a hip replacement. I have to have a knee done, but I am looking so that I can return... hopefully soon.
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2019  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well I understand that this is a controversial topic, and I don't think this coin is one of the coins the agent I spoke to is talking about, but he said he has found very good counterfeits in fake slabs and he has found a couple of coins in TPG graded slabs that were counterfeits he said that they are now using laser measured authentic coins and producing dyes and then stamping on silver planchets.


And just think if even the pros doing it every day are fooled once in a blue moon how many people who think they can do it all themselves are fooled. This is especially true for type collectors. The best thing a collector can do is learn their limitations and not think they can do everything themselves.
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