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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,331 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2135 Posts |
I've been puzzled for years by the prices in the catalogues.
Are the prices for each country's coins meant to reflect that country's grading of coins or US grading or what ?
For example, Scandinavian grading can be quite severe. A slabbed coin recently bought from a Spink auction by a Scandinavian dealer was graded by him as 1+ (corresponding to VF), Spink graded it as good VF; it was slabbed as AU50.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9395 Posts |
Some AU50 coins these days seem closer to EF or even VF35 to me. To get a real AU coin, you need to get AU58 (maybe AU55) in many cases.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7963 Posts |
If I understand correctly, there are two (related) questions in your post. My opinions are based on the grading I see of pre-industrial era coins, which is my collecting focus. If you are talking about the online K M catalog which is accessed through the NGC website, my opinion on the first question is: - the values in this catalog tend to reflect U.S. TPG grading, and not country grading. As a result, the values are often higher than current market value for unslabbed coins (which often have better eye appeal than slabbed coins at comparable grade). I think the second question is about country grading vs TPG grading, and I agree with you that yes, the TPG grades are inflated compared to country standards. I am much newer to this than many others out here, but I tend to not pay much attention to catalog values, except as an indicator of the relative value/scarcity within a type. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
2135 Posts |
tdziemia,
I was actually talking about the printed book catalogs. It shouldn't make any difference except that the online catalog seems to reflect the prices shown in a 2 or 3 year old printed KM book catalog.
My observation is that the prices in the printed KM book catalogs for certain countries at least (possibly for all non-US countries) seem to be substantially lower than the prices charged by the most well-known dealers in the countries I've considered. Those countries are Britain, England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy.
1. Perhaps it's possible to buy coins at the prices in the printed book catalogs from US dealers (when they have the coins in stock) - is that what those prices are saying ?
Does this matter ?
2. Well, it kind of does for those collectors who have to buy from dealers in the non-US countries above.
3. It matters also for those people who have valued their collection based on those prices (or more commonly, where valuers have based their appraisals on those prices) but then are unlucky enough to have their collection stolen.
a) because they can't replace their coins at the insured values.
b) because insurers may say - you've insured your collection
at much less than the market value so we'll pay only a fraction of the insured value.
4. I've not tried this but if I could buy particular British, French or German coins at printed KM book catalog prices, I'm pretty sure I could make a livable income from selling those coins in those countries. Perhaps there are people already doing this.
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Moderator
 Australia
16868 Posts |
The KM catalogues usually rely on "local knowledge" of the coins in question. So whether or not any one particular country uses "US grades" or "local grades" as the basis of the valuations, would depend on the knowledge of the "local expert".
I know for a fact that the fellow who used to supply them info on Australian and New Zealand tokens for the 1800s catalogue used Australian grading standards as his price basis, as he was entirely unaware that America had suffered from severe gradeflation since the 1960s. His "VF" coins would have been American "AU".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2490 Posts |
So many things to address here, but it's at the heart of why I no longer have coins as my major source of income. With the exception of America, coin collecting would appear to be a world wide hobby. So why do I exclude the USA? Well because, apart from the hobbyists inhabiting this forum an others, coin collecting seems to have become another investment tool. I started work in the courier industry. Next Day Delivery was the idea we preached, even though no one with an idea of forward planning needed this bolt-on service. And it's the same with Third Party Graders. I don't know if it has taken hold in Australia, Canada or anywhere else. The UK version didn't work out too well as the graders were also the auctioneers responsible for selling the stuff. Mostly, in the Old World, we are used to holding our coins. Weighing up their beauties and then putting them to bed. There are two points of view. Love your coins, play with them and experience them. (OK, this doesn't apply to proofs & such) or just lock them away in plastic coffins. Untouchable, for ever. Catalog values are one thing. ebay "SOLD" values are a whole different deal. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
To get a real AU coin, you need to get AU58 (maybe AU55) in many cases. Not at all. 58s are in many cases 63/64s that just have a touch of rub. Anyone whose standard for AU is a 58 is using an entirely different standard. Quote:
My observation is that the prices in the printed KM book catalogs for certain countries at least (possibly for all non-US countries) seem to be substantially lower than the prices charged by the most well-known dealers in the countries I've considered. Those countries are Britain, England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy.
It's basically impossible to have an accurate price guide even for a single country much less the entire world. The best thing to do is look at the market sales which can be hard when it's something not traded much and sometimes you just have to use knowledge of the market and best guess. That said the countries for dealers you listed all have high taxes and import charges, anywhere that has those and higher costs of living will have more expensive prices. You could put the same coin in 50 different countries and have 50 different legitimate prices. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Sap has made a very strong point. Because readers from all over the World use their own grading standards. The pricing according to grade has turned out to be somewhat (I have heard commented), of a random number generator.  To combat this problem, I always use conservative British grading standards when using any Krause World coin Catalog. Nevertheless, the KM World Coin books (I have copies covering the last 4 centuries, as well as KM World Gold Coins and and KM World Crowns and Thalers), is by far the best photo reference for World coin identification purposes, covering the 4 centuries for World coins. I probably would have never contemplated collecting World coins at all, without my Krause reference books.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
The pricing according to grade has turned out to be somewhat (I have heard commented), of a random number generator. There's nothing random about any of the grades from anywhere. The key is to understand what is actually happening with the grading. Small niche countries are more likely to have wild differences with their own standards. That said only two companies have been able to become world wide with major influence which is PCGS and NGC and that is just going to continue to expand as it has been. There's nothing random about how they grade |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,331 |
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Posted 11/10/2019 7:38 pm
