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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,640 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74624 Posts |
One of the double ears was listed as a Doubled Working Hub. There's probably little to no value now, since there's going to be so many of them. http://doubleddie.com/2486337.htmlErrers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4404 Posts |
Made a post about this earlier: http://goccf.com/t/364030I haven't seen many of these doubled ears come up. Only a few on the forum and none in person. I'm not sure how I feel about this call. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
74624 Posts |
I thought it was unusual as well. Not really sure how I feel etheir.
Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
Interesting: The 2015 D I sent in to MR Wiles was listed as a DDO-001. Carl sent one in also and it was listed as a DDO-002 Both are listed on Variety Vista. Carl sent in another one and it was sent back as to Minor for a listing So I think he might have sent it to MR Wexler looks to be the same coin. Its interesting the two different attribution. I also sent four more 2015 D's in to MR Wiles and they also came back as to minor for a listing but they said DDO just to minor. I also have a 2016 D I just found a couple weeks back with the same doubling. So now the Doubling has been found on the 16,15,18 19 D cent. I guess if its a stronger doubling it will be listed as a DDO. If weak MR Wexler will list it as Hub doubling and MR wiles wont even list them I guess  , Edited by Daves Errors
01/11/2020 9:54 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74624 Posts |
Yeah, it's weird. I have nothing against Wexler though. I think we need much more research done though to be sure.
Errers and Varietys.
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New Member
United States
41 Posts |
Hmmm... Interesting. I had a sneaking suspicion that this was the case. I've gotten 8 in the last two boxes that I have done.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4404 Posts |
Hmmm. Could just be east/west coast bias. Of course us on the east coasters aren't going to see many. I've heard two people now saying that they found a lot in their area.
Just surprised about how quick he called them doubled working hubs. When the 2017-P DDOs were first being found, Wexler listed any that had doubling. We quickly started to reach 15-20 dies with nearly identical doubling, that, with and a bit of research on my end, was IMO enough to warrant the doubled working hub label. And Wexler agreed, they were all removed.
Wexler never listed a 2015-D doubled ear and Wiles only has 3, not enough IMO to label doubled working hub.
Maybe he received a lot of them in submissions, enough to make the call, before he even had the chance to list one, but we won't know.
Edited by Tanman2001
01/11/2020 8:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
One thing I forgot to mention is MR Wexler has a 2019 D with the same doubling and he has listed it as a DDO-001 NOT Hub Doubling So I am confused. This is the 2016 D with Doubling I found a couple weeks back IDK lol   Edited by Daves Errors
01/11/2020 10:06 pm
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Valued Member
United States
181 Posts |
Sorry! That was me. I sent one coin to Dr. Wiles for attribution and he designated it as DDO-002. He asked for another one, if I had one, and I sent it to him for his collection. That second coin "was not" the DDO-002, Dr. Wiles informed me, but a different die and not worth listing. The doubled ear was, however, identical. I then sent 7 examples to John Wexler and he decided not to attribute a DDO for any of them, but issued the WWHO-001 instead. Both gentlemen explained their actions to me, satisfactorily. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7055 Posts |
 Just when us west coaster had something to look for..  .....  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1566 Posts |
Carl, It still makes no sense. MR Wexler has a listing for a 2019 D DDO-001 and it looks like the ones we sent MR Wiles but ours are 2015 D that he returned as to minor to list but in the letter he sent back to me it said ( DDO ) to minor to list NOT HUB DOUBLING. BUT Wexler has the 2019 D listed as a DDO-001 Why. Why did he not list the 2019 D as Hub Doubling. I am lost LOL Edited by Daves Errors
01/12/2020 01:46 am
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Valued Member
United States
181 Posts |
I hope that John Wexler doesn't mind my pasting his comments, here. I am too, much of a novice to paraphrase this information, myself. -John Wexler: Unfortunately, sometimes in the world of die varieties there can be too much of a good thing. This is the case with the seven 2015-D Lincoln cents that you submitted. The doubling on the lower ear is the same on all seven coins, but based on the die markers the coins are from seven different working dies. This leads me to the conclusion that the variety in question is from a doubled working hub.
All working dies which are used to strike coins are made from working hubs. If the doubling is on the working hub, as it appears to be in this case, that same doubling will be transferred to all working dies made by the doubled working hub. Since a working hub can be used to make hundreds of working dies, the Mint could end up with hundreds of working dies that all have the exact same doubling.
Sometimes you may see some minor differences in the doubling on the various working dies produced by a doubled working hub. There are a number of reasons the doubling may seem to have slight differences. These differences include but are not limited to differences in hubbing pressure when the working dies are made, wear to the doubled working hub, abrading the doubled working hub, differences in striking pressure in the coining presses, wear to the affected working dies, and abrading of the affected working dies to remove die clash marks.
Since numerous working dies have the same doubling, coins with this working hub doubling are far more common than doubling that only affects the working die. Value, if any, is minimal. You can access more information on doubled working hubs on my website at http://www.doubleddie.com by clicking on Doubled Dies in the left column menu and then scrolling down until you find the link for Doubled Working HubsI use the same caution, here, with comments and education from James Wiles'. -James Wiles: What makes them too minor is somewhat subjective between attributers. I am looking for uniqueness in the secondary image. Something what immediately tells me it is different. It order to get that, there must be more to the secondary image than just a little hit from the die. In addition, I would like to see significant die markers (which on these ultra modern designs is difficult to find). The die chips are not on the dies when they are initially put into service, but appear as the die wears. So seeing many examples of the same die in different die states, helps make attribution easier. Because each die deteriorates in a unique way, the markers can be used to pinpoint a particular die, even though the doubling is extremely similar. Are these DDOs? Yes. But if there is no discernible difference, then why collect more than just 1? Or why list more than just 1? Also, realistically, their premium value is extremely limited. If past experience is predictive, then these will settle out at $2-3 each. Just check out all the 25c DDRs listed on ebay. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4404 Posts |
Okay that makes sense why he called them a doubled working hub then.
He saw seven different dies with identical doubling. If this is true, I agree with Wexler.
Seven coins, seven dies, all from one person, that seems statistically significant.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4404 Posts |
Yep, just found one here on the east coast.
Same slight doubling on the earlobe. Can confirm it is a different die as it has a similar die crack on the shield but a pre-die break depression further right than the die chip on DDO-002.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,640 |
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Posted 01/11/2020 1:38 pm
