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 Replies: 27 / Views: 2,661 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
Well...I could not continue to sit on the sideline with the variety of 8 Reales pieces posted on the community and Archraz's extensive knowledge, input and "marketing" of the colonial coinage appeal. As you may know, I am very much "vested" in Austrian Talers, yet these are very nice pieces from the Spanish colonial times in Central/South America, having a rich history in shaping the continent. I am intrigued. I recently visited the Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico, and as part of my travel stopped to see Merida, a beautiful Spanish colonial town (which was conquered from Mayans). Given some familiarity with the history as a result of the visit, I selected a Mexican type coin and to avoid counterfeiting which apparently is common for these, I purchased an NGC certified piece. It is still in transit yet from the picture it seems very nice toned coin as a starter.  I look forward to expanding my knowledge (any suggestion of books - beyond my internet research is welcomed) yet not neglect the Austrian Habsburg end of things  . I attach a recent Olmutz piece purchased.   Zohar |
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Valued Member
United States
295 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
217 Posts |
Nice pickups Zohar! I also have just one 8 reales from Mexico - purchased on a whim a few years ago. I think that there are great designs on many of the latin american pieces, but I find the lure of talers to be too intoxicating.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Welcome to the "8 reales" addiction. Once you start learning about this amazing run of coins you'll need twice the bookshelf space and twice the storage space (assuming you will continue to enjoy your Talers and share them with us in the forum) Your first coin is a beauty! Well struck, uncleaned 8's are getting harder and harder to find. Are you going to go for a type run, perhaps ruler and mint? There are endless opportunities. I went with a date and assayer run for the Mexico City Mint starting with 1730 and running all the way through the Mexican Republic Period ending in 1897. I figure that way I will never complete the set and will always be on the hunt. 31 years of collecting and I am still excited when I can add a new coin or upgrade one to a better grade. I'm me some time and I'll link you to some interesting websites.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
Zohar444- Thank you so much! I am honored. And I was more than happy to get you interested in this wonderful type of coin. Quote:
but I find the lure of talers to be too intoxicating. One thing to keep in mind is that 8 Reales are talers. In fact, during the 17th and 18th centuries the Dutch VOC (East India Company) would openly trade with the British colonies of North America since the English East India Company was unable to enforce their monopoly rights of trade there. So the Dutch would haul large amounts of silver over to New England in order to acquire tobacco and cotton goods. This silver that was hauled was almost always pieces of 8 that had been shipped to the Lowlands as a part of trade with the Spanish government. The Dutch then would make business deals with the British colonists in terms of "Spanish Dollars" (a common mispronunciation of "Talers" in North America). This means that the Dutch in fact did view pieces of 8 as Talers! 8 Reales were the talers of the world at this time. P.S. Wonderful coins, Zohar. Congrads! Edited by Archraz
10/14/2008 12:05 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1429 Posts |
Any views on the piece below which seems nice - what would be a fair price to pay?  Thanks. Zohar |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
Well, first of all, I would want to see the edges of the coin in order to make sure that the overlaps on the edge design seem correct. Also I would want some confirmation that it was of correct weight and is the proper diameter for 8s of the Mexico city mint. But from what I can tell by the pics of the obverse and reverse, It looks pretty good.
For a VF with original toning, Krause lists this date as being worth about $75. Based upon the market from where you are buying it, there could be some variation in price. Most dealers would probably want $60-75 for this one. But in a certain areas of the country where the market for foreign coins is not strong (even for foreign coins that would have circulated in the American colonies), I could see this going as low as $45. So all in all, i'd say that a fair price is $55-60, and I personally wouldn't pay much more than that unless it was slabbed.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
Thanks for the clarification. Indeed it is graded VF by the online dealer. He wants way more, $110. I do not have a nearby store and it will be challenging to purchase online ( ebay) given the counterfeiting. What do you suggest? Thanks, Zohar |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Assuming it weighs the correct amount (I always weigh 8 reales before I buy them, and yes, I take my own scale with me)and it looks good color-wise when you look at the coin, not a picture..I would say that is a nice 75$-$100 coin. Hard to see upclose details on the picture but looks free of major scratches and major dents. 1783 MoFF is a common date/assayer. If it was an MoFM you would have a very rare coin. As a side note, this is the date of 99% of the coins off the Cazador Wreck ( http://www.elcazador.com/)so be carefull that the coin has nice smooth surfaces like a normal silver coin and not a pitted or etched surface like a lightly damaged salvage coin. I have nothing against salvage coins, I dove for 8's myself on the 1715 and 1733 wrecks and have lots of them in my collection but for a common date I wouldn't pay more than $40 for a salvaged coin without a wreck certificate to give it historical value. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
hmm, that is a bit steep, but honestly I have heard of some dealers charging way more than the Krause value. This once again is due to supply and demand. In this case the market is the whole world since you are dealing with an online store. These do have a lot of demand throughout the whole world since they circulated everywhere, so some dealers may be able to get way over the Krause listing. Before considering anything, I would want to see some very detailed pics of the edges since for all you know this dealer could be in cahoots with Chinese counterfeiters or could have acquired a Chinese counterfeit without knowing of the typical signs of a fake. In all honesty, if this one is totally legit, I would still pass on it since it just seems to be way overpriced for most sectors of the US market.
Edited by Archraz
10/16/2008 9:47 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
I agree with you regarding salvaged coins. I prefer the natural look of the unsalvaged, paying more. If you have any thoughts on where I should look online for fair pricing and authenticity I would greatly appreciate it.
Regards,
Zohar
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
Archraz, thanks for your input. I will pass.
Best,
Zohar
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
My experience has been the Krauss catalogue is a good guide to which coins are better dates but it has always been way off on value. Demand for nice undamaged 8's has risen dramatically in the last 2 years and prices have followed the demand. Higher grades like AU are in really high demand right now so my suggestion to Zohar is hold out for really high grade coins and be willing to build your collection slowly over time. As an investment, if that is an issue with you, a small group of high grade coins will bring a better return than a large group of average coins. There are lots of 8's out there, hold out for nice ones.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
jfransch - I fully agree and will pursue this strategy. My challenge will be to find the trustworthy dealers.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
8 Reales above received - very nice "in person". Great start to this collection.
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Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
That's a nice XF piece you have there, Zohar. In terms of that 1783 - I agree with what was said. An original XF of that year would run around $150, but I don't see a VF-30 bringing in more than $100. If you like 8 Reales - check-out my showcase set at PCGS: http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/sho....aspx?sc=478 ~Roman |
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Replies: 27 / Views: 2,661 |
Posted 10/13/2008 6:40 pm
